DNA-R1B1C7-L Archives

From: yair <>
Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] Questions??
Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2008 16:17:50 +0300
References: <e0d2d2870809250656w77f0d1f8u8ee058ee18ff2964@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <e0d2d2870809250656w77f0d1f8u8ee058ee18ff2964@mail.gmail.co m>

At 04:56 PM 9/25/2008, you wrote:
>Yair:
>
>The list is alive, but not very active.

Thank you for your help.
First of all I wish to emphasize that I am on this list primarily to learn.
The reason why this needs to be said is because of remarks you have
made which I refer to below.

>R1b1b2e is the new name of R1b1c7, but the name of the list has not been
>changed.
>
>To see how R1b1b2e fits in with other haplotypes, have a look at the new
>Y-Chromosome Phylogenetic Tree, which is available on the FTDNA website,
>among other places. Here is a link to a pdf of the chart: *
>http://tinyurl.com/4qjjs9*
>
>I don't know what you mean by "anomalies in the family tree." It is what it
>is.
>
>Yes, this list is primarily focused on genetic genealogy.
>
>Your question about "tribe" and "ethnic sub-division" has been repeatedly
>and clearly answered many times. Y-DNA gives zero information about
>ethnicity or tribe. For your convenience, I have pasted one of the answers
>to your persistent question that I posted on this list last June:
>"Close Y-DNA matches on large marker-panels do give evidence about genetic
>and genealogic connections in the paternal line. That is what got most of us
>on the list interested in this science. But even perfect 200-marker Y-DNA
>matches do not give us information on ethnicity or appearance. Consider that
>an R1b1c7 great great granddaddy of a large number of offspring by different
>mothers could have been a sailor, who fathered sons in every port--one in
>Norway, one in Spain, one in Africa, one in India, one in Cambodia, one in
>China, one in Tonga... Now suppose each of these sons remained with their
>mothers, married local women, and their descendants remained in each of
>these places and interbred with their neighbors, [spoke the same language,
>followed the same customs...]. Each of our R1b1c7 sailor's second great
>grandsons will have received 100% of his Y-chromosome, and 6.25% (1/16) of
>his other genetic material, on average. [And all would be in exactly the
>same sub-clade of the same Y-haplogroup.] What would their ethnicities be?
>They would be Norwegian, Spanish, African, Indian, Cambodian, Chinese, etc.
>And what would they look like? Mostly, they would not look particularly like
>their great great granddad--they would look like their neighbors. [And it
>would be just plain silly to call all of them "Irish."]

People study genealogy assumedly because they have an interest as to
who their ancestor was.
I am a white man. I look like a white man. Theoretically however a
person who looks like me could still have been
descended from Genghis Khan (or anyone else from anywhere else for
that matter).
If a DNA test had have discovered that I had the same YDNA as Genghis Khan
assumedly had I would not consider myself a Mongolian. I would
however be a bit more interested in Mongolians
than I am at present especially if I have had previous acquaintance with them.
I also might be interested in whether or not I shared something in
common with other
descendants of Genghis Khan. I would not make a big deal out of this
nor even necessarily take it
seriously but it would interest me.
Assumedly it would also interest others who had the same DNA.
I see nothing morally reprehensible in this, nothing to be shamed of.
People did it all the time.
It is interesting.
In fact Afro-Americans who are partly white and partly Amerindian do
it often and no-one finds
anything wrong with it. There was a TV series about it.


>This does not mean that it would be useless for them to check their
>Y-chromosomes to find out who their 2nd great granddad and his paternal line
>ancestors may have been. But it does mean that it would be useless for them
>to check their Y-chromosomes to figure out what their ethnicity or "racial
>characteristics" may be."
>
>Y-DNA studies trace the strict paternal line. Period. This has nothing to do
>with ethnicity.

It has nothing to do with it only in the case where the subject
marries away from the parent stock
and his descendants keep on doing so until it is no longer traceable.


> Period.
>
>The Y-chromosome has only about 30-odd genes, almost all of which pertain to
>spermatogenesis, so any significant mutation tends not to be passed on. As
>far as I know, the only medical implication so far discovered is the linkage
>between a specific null STR and one type of male infertility.

OK. Thanks. You have partly answered my question.
Did you really need to say all the rest?


>There are no "proclivities" of Y-DNA haplogroups. The markers that determine
>haplogroups and haplotypes find NO EXPRESSION in the phenotype, they do not
>code for proteins, they do not mark ethnic groups,

OK but they belong to them and emerge from them.


>and they do not support
>crack-pot theories of the Israelites settling Britain.

You are referring to a belief of mine.
As far as I remember I have NEVER on this list referred to it
directly nor did I intend to do so.
It is in fact relatively irrelevant to the question I asked.
I am not on this list to spread my beliefs nor defend them.
I can do that elsewhere.
http://www.britam.org/
You have in effect taken what you know about me from another sphere
and worked it in (with negative connotation and unfriendly intent) to
your answer.
I find this offensive.

If you wish to argue with me over this belief of mine please do so
but send a message to me directly or to my own
list (you will have an audience of ca. 1500 subscribers if that is
what you want) and not here were it would not be welcomed
and it interferes with my being here which is more to learn than anything else.

How would you feel if I hunted around the web, discovered some
political or ideological
belief of your own and then took a dig at you here over it in reply
to a legitimate thread (pertinent to r1b1c7) you had started?


> Give it a rest.



Rest from what?
On this forum I did not even begin.
You did.
Yair Davidiy
Jerusalem
Israel


>David Ewing
>

Yair Davidiy
POB 595
Jerusalem 91004
Israel

Brit-Am
http://www.britam.org

AND I WILL MAKE OF THEE A GREAT NATION, AND I WILL BLESS THEE, AND MAKE THY
NAME GREAT; AND THOU SHALT BE A BLESSING:

AND I WILL BLESS THEM THAT BLESS THEE...
AND IN THEE SHALL ALL FAMILIES OF THE EARTH BE BLESSED
[Genesis 12:2-3].

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• Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] Questions?? by yair <>