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Archiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2008-06 > 1213285477


From: "Paul Conroy" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] General Question from rookie
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 11:44:37 -0400
References: <733782.78488.qm@web32507.mail.mud.yahoo.com><9656caf80806120813x6f75907doe81da2babe47135b@mail.gmail.com><015301c8cca0$79a5ecd0$6400a8c0@Ken1>
In-Reply-To: <015301c8cca0$79a5ecd0$6400a8c0@Ken1>


Ken,

I'm not sure what you're getting at - care to elucidate? Are you suggesting
that no explanation is necessary?

Do you have an explanation for people with a haplotype common in North
Western Ireland, having fairly close matches in the Levant?

Cheers,
Paul



On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 11:24 AM, Ken Nordtvedt <>
wrote:

> Probably none of these scenarios apply. Unless your GD = 1 Mismatch on 12
> markers is for an EXTREMELY strange R1b1b2 haplotype, there probably is no
> meaning to it that rises above the statistics of the mutational process.
>
> But maybe you know something the rest of us do not concerning crusader
> ancestry or the like which tips the probabilities?
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul Conroy" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 9:13 AM
> Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] General Question from rookie
>
>
> > Mitch,
> >
> > I have a match with a Genetic Distance of 1 at 12-Markers in Syria, the
> > guy
> > is R1b1b2 as well, and describes his ancestry as Arab.
> >
> > I have 3 thoughts about this, in order of most likelihood:
> >
> > 1. There were many thousands of crusader knights in today's Israel,
> > Lebanon
> > and Syria in the Middle Ages, so they probably left some descendants.
> >
> > 2. That some Roman legionnaires might have been recruited from Britain,
> > and
> > stationed in the Levant and left descendants there.
> >
> > 3. That some of the Neolithic farmers spreading out of the Middle East
> may
> > have take a coastal migration route and settled in Ireland, and these
> > matches are all that remains of there ancestral population.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Paul
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 10:48 AM, Mitch <> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Thanks for the help, David. The results in question are from my cousin
> on
> >> my mother's side. A male descendant of my mother's father. I'm R1b1b2e
> >> (R1b1c7) and I have enlisted a couple of my cousins who are direct
> >> descendants of my maternal grandfather and great grandfathers to be
> >> tested.
> >> Good idea?
> >>
> >> I guess I'm confused about the line "currently published", sounded like
> >> he
> >> might fit into a new category down the road that has yet to be created.
> >> Adding the "e" (M222) gives more of a focused location. R1b1b2 sounds
> >> much
> >> more general as far as area. Correct? I was also surprised because I
> >> thought R1b1b2 was European and this family has lived in Lebanon for
> >> generations and generations.
> >>
> >> Thanks again
> >> Mitch
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --- On Thu, 6/12/08, David Ewing <> wrote:
> >>
> >> From: David Ewing <>
> >> Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] General Question from rookie
> >> To:
> >> Date: Thursday, June 12, 2008, 10:14 AM
> >>
> >> Hi, Mitch.
> >>
> >> It is not at all unusual to find someone in R1b1b2* that is "negative
> for
> >> all currently published mutations downstream of M269;" indeed, the
> number
> >> of
> >> folks in this group probably exceeds the total of all of those who are
> >> positive for any of the downstream SNPs. You don't need to wait or do
> >> more
> >> testing to "see where he fits:" this is where he fits. [Notice the
> >> asterisk--this means "M269+ and negative for all currently published
> >> mutations downstream of M269," whereas R1b1b2 without the asterisk just
> >> means "M269+".]
> >>
> >> I am not sure I understood what you were saying about "a different
> >> ancestor," though. It would be highly unusual for a known male-line
> >> relative
> >> of yours not to have the same SNP as you, and therefore to be in the
> same
> >> haplogroup. I don't think you are testing your ancestors--unless you are
> >> using a shovel to collect DNA, eh? Do you and this R1b1b2 fellow have a
> >> common ancestor in genealogical time? If so, then you have a truly
> >> surprising result, and probably a mistake somewhere. Most of us would
> say
> >> that the fact you are R1b1b2e and he is R1b1b2* means that your most
> >> recent
> >> common ancestor lived many thousands of years ago--a minimum of 1500 or
> >> so,
> >> but more likely at least several thousand, on the order of 10k. How do
> >> your
> >> STR panels compare? If these SNP results are accurate, I would guess
> that
> >> on
> >> the FTDNA 37-marker panel you would be at genetic distance 20, more or
> >> less.
> >> If you are only genetic distance 5 or so, the whole DNA community is
> >> going
> >> to be wanting to see your results and try to figure out what happened to
> >> the
> >> SNP.
> >>
> >> David Ewing
> >>
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