DNA-R1B1C7-L Archives

From: "David Wilson" <>
Subject: [DNA-R1B1C7] Differentiating R1b1c7 and the Scots-Irish
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 17:34:17 -0700

Some posts in recent weeks lead me to believe we need to draw a clear
conceptual difference between R1b1c7 individuals in North America and the
Scots-Irish in North America. There is some population overlap in these two
groups, but I believe it is not as pronounced as some may think.

Let us remember that there are many R1b1c7 individuals in the British Isles
and in the different countries to which they emigrated who are NOT
Scots-Irish in the core definition of that group. At base, the SI descend
from the population of Scots (and a few culturally similar Northern English)
who relocated first to Northern Ireland in the 17th century, and then from
Northern Ireland to the colonies in the 18th century. There are lots of
R1b1c7 individuals in the United States who descend from Irish immigrants
who had no recent Scottish roots, and plenty of direct immigrants from
Scotland whose family members did not first participate in the Plantation of
Ulster.

Also, if you look at the Scots-Irish in the narrowest definition of their
identity, not more than 10-20 percent of all SI immigrants will be R1b1c7,
which means that the vast majority -- some 80-90 percent -- are not. Why
would we think this? Because that's the percentage of R1b1c7 today in the
counties from which the majority of the SI immigrants came to North America.

I think it will be generally true that the broad regional movements of the
Scots-Irish in North America will reflect the movement of SOME R1b1c7
families. But there will be other North American R1b1c7 families that
distributed themselves to different colonies (and eventually states) without
making use of the Appalachian highways and gaps that we strongly associate
with the SI.

For this reason, I would like to ask the list contributors to focus more
narrowly on the central subject of our conversation, which is Haplogroup
R1b1c7. Comments about the Scots-Irish that illuminate R1b1c7 questions are
certainly welcome, but posts on the SI in general should probably be
directed to one of the many Internet boards or lists that focus more broadly
on that group.

To recap my rough estimate: about 10-20 percent of North Americans with SI
roots will be R1b1c7; about one third to one half of all R1b1c7 in North
American will descend from the SI as defined above.

David Wilson
List Moderator

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• [DNA-R1B1C7] Differentiating R1b1c7 and the Scots-Irish by "David Wilson" <>