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From: "David Ewing" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] DYF399X modals
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 13:54:33 -0600


Oops. I should have known better than to try and send a formatted table to
the list. Here is a version I hope will be more readable:

Group ID
Modal 21t 25/26c 27.1t
1 CA 21t 26c 27.1t
1 WC3 21t 25c 27.1t
1 FI 21t 24c 24t
1 DC2 21t 26c 26.1t
1 MT 21t 26c 27.1t
3 SR 22t 27c 27.1t
3 DN 21t 24c 25.1t
3 HW 21t 26c 25.1t
4 GW 21t 25c 27.1t
4 RB 21t 25c 27.1t
4 RD 21t 25c 28.1t
5 JM2 21t 26c 27.1t
5 RC 21t 26c 27.1t
5 JL 22t 26c 27.1t
5 TG 22t 25c 27.1t
7 SC 21t 25c 27.1t
7 DL2 21t 25c 27.1t

The men in our project are divided into "Groups." Group 1 and Group 5 are
men who are genetically reasonably close relatives of the others in the
project, but do not know their conventional genealogic connection with the
others. Group 5 differs from Group 1 in that all men in Group 5 have DYS 391
= 10, rather than 11 (the R1b1c7 modal at this marker). Groups 3, 4 and 7
are conventional kindreds. The common ancestors of Groups 3 & 4 were born in
the mid-seventeenth century and lived near one another in Donegal; the
common ancestor of Group 7 was born ca. 1720-25, probably in Pennsylvania.
Some Ewings have speculated on conventional grounds that there is a close
relationship between Group 7 and Group 4 (the immigrant ancestor of Group 7
is not known, but he may have been the same man as the ancestor of Group 4);
these DYF399X results would appear to lend some support to this.

I have been speculating that perhaps a value of 25c at the middle DYF399X
marker may be a branch-specific marker for Group 4 (&7), so that WC3 in
Group 1 might want to look among the ancestors of Group 4 for his own line.
If this is true, then TG's 25c result must be due to a parallel
mutation--not much of a stretch, given how quickly this marker is thought to
mutate.

So, again, what are the R1b1c7 modals for DYF399X?

David Ewing

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