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Archiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2008-03 > 1205281958


From: "J. David Grierson" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] Ui Neill Modals
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 11:32:38 +1100
References: <c17.2f778297.3506fb59@aol.com>
In-Reply-To: <c17.2f778297.3506fb59@aol.com>


John,
Attached for your interest and comparison is an Excel spreadsheet
containing the three Grier(son)/Greer/Grear/McGreer modals I have derived.
The 42 sets of data I have been able to find divide (in my view) almost
equally into three haplogroups. Few have been SNP tested, but the
virtually identical results in markers 38-67 are used as the basis for
judgement in identifying the R1b1c7 members, in spite of FTDNA's lables,
most of which are R1b. The earliest known ancestors in most cases are
Irish, including the R1b1c7 division, but all the (4) Griersons in that
division are Scots. You may be aware that there was known migration of
Griersons from Galloway and Dumfries to Ulster, many taking the name
Greer at the time, and indeed, the best extant evidence is that Greer
(or Grere) was the ancestral name in Scotland from which all derive.

However, why three distinctly different sets of families chose to use
the name has not been examined to my knowledge. The Viking division may
be a consequence of Scandinavian encroachment in Ireland pre surnames,
or perhaps they were Scots "Vikings" who later migrated to Ireland. But,
from my study, the fabled descent of the Griersons from the MacGregors
can now be disregarded, few MacGregors are M222+, and the person now
regarded by Dr McGregor as the founder of the clan certainly isn't the
ancestor of anybody in my study.

In respect of the R1b1c7 Grier modal, although 389-1 shows 14, all
Griersons are 13 there. Similarly, at 576, all Griersons are 18 against
the modal 19. This perhaps suggests a fairly early split in the family
between those who adopted Grier(son) and those who became Greers.
Although you are not showing markers 38-67, it is noteworthy that my
modal is identical to the R1b1c7 modal for those markers except at 444,
where every one tested in my study shows 13 vs the modal 12. 444/13 is
extremely rare in R1b1c7, and I am inclined to use this marker as a
family test.

Dr McGregor chose to name the group that includes the M222+ as "Irish
Related" in his study of Clan Gregor. On the face of it, however, we are
so distant from the Ui Neill as to suggest a relationship predating
their time in the sun. I would equally speculate that M222+ might
predate the migration from Gaul (if that was the case), and reflect a
split migration, some to SW Scotland, some to Ireland.

I would be interested in your comments. By all means use this info in
your website.
Regards
David Grierson in Melbourne



wrote:

>I posted a few Ui Neill family modals on my Clan McLaughlin web site. I'd
>be happy to post more if I can find any.
>
>_http://members.aol.com/Lochlan/modals.htm_
>(http://members.aol.com/Lochlan/modals.htm)
>
>
>John
>
>

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