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From: "Paul Conroy" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] Scots in Poland
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 16:52:59 -0400
References: <031120082015.9474.47D6E8670006BA610000250222007510900A049D0A0304@comcast.net>
In-Reply-To: <031120082015.9474.47D6E8670006BA610000250222007510900A049D0A0304@comcast.net>


Linda,

There were tens of thousands of Irish in the employ of the Austro-Hungarian
empire, a part of which was Southern Poland and the Galatia region of
today's Western Ukraine.

The many "Brown" generals, are but one example.

Also Google "Schottenkloster" for links to the great number of Irish
monastic settlements in the former Holy Roman Empire - part of which was
Western Poland. Some of these were later populated by a mix of Irish and
Western Scottish monks, right up till the 19th century.

Cheers,
Paul

On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 4:15 PM, <> wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> Here's a webpage with detailed info on Scottish migration to Poland:
>
> http://www.scotland.org/about/history-tradition-and-roots/features/culture/1576.html
> It confirms
> "Records from 1592 reveal Scots settlers being granted citizenship of
> Krakow giving their employment as trader or merchant. Payment for being
> granted citizenship ranged from 12 Polish florins to a musket and gunpowder
> or an undertaking to marry within a year and a day of acquiring a holding.
> By the 1600s there were an estimated 30,000 Scots living in Poland"
> It includes links:
> Papers Relating to the Scots in Poland (1576 - 1798), part I
> Papers Relating to the Scots in Poland (1576 - 1798), Part II
> Papers Relating to the Scots in Poland (1576 - 1798), Part III
> Royal Grants and Privileges to the Scots Merchants (1)
> Royal Grants and Privileges to the Scots Merchants (2)
> Royal Grants and Privileges to the Scots Merchants (3)
> Miscellaneous Extracts relating to Scots in Poland (1)
> Scots admitted to the citizenship of Cracow
> These are not links to the papers but to articles on Electric Scotland.
> Here is another link to a war beween Sweden and Denmark in the early 1600s
> where the Danes used Scottish mercinaries:
> http://www.zum.de/whkmla/military/17cen/sweddan16111613.html
> Here's another google preview to a book on Scotland and the Thirty Years'
> War, 1618-
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=sgvQTjkugo0C&pg=PA191&lpg=PA191&dq=swedish+scottish+wars&source=web&ots=KIC8WP-b3v&sig=qUfxEVBYJqzbx7EtsRmaRSgWpcM&hl=en
> It starts "The exodus of tens of thousands of Scots to fight in
> continental Europe in the first half of the seventeenth century has long
> attrcted the interests of historians." Apparently 50,000 Scots fought there
> from 1618 to 1640 alone. Yet even at this time continental service for
> Scots was nothing new. This book says that Irish were not preferred by the
> Swedes because they were Catholic. This was the era of the religious wars.
> See page 146 in this book. It does show that there were no Irish regiments
> under the Swedes but Hiberno-Spanish regiments serving in the Spanish
> Netherlands (1632-46) under Owen Roe O'Neill and Thomas Preston. A fast
> check of this book seems to confirm what older historians have said: the
> Irish soldiers sent off from Derry in the early 1600s to Sweden defected to
> the Spanish side. I can't imagine why they would not. This would probably
> mean the R1b1c7 in Europe would be found in what was the Spanish Netherlands
> rather than Sweden and Poland -- !
> areas w
> here you would more likely find Scottish Celts.
> This looks like a good book, but $115 is a little too steep!!
> Linda Merle
>
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