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Archiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2008-02 > 1203653205


From: "David Ewing" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] Age of R1b1c7
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:06:45 -0700


John McLaughlin writes, "...I have a spreadsheet of Dohertys, of which 50
are R1b1c7. They have a very distinctive marker, YCAIIb = 22 which almost
none of the McLaughlins share. Six of these 50 are 25 marker tests, so you
have 44 which can be used. Out of these 44, 35 have YCAii = 22. Not a
single one of our R1b1c7 McLaughlins from Donegal have this value."

Interestingly, we have a branch of the Ewing family that has YCA11b = 22.
These are the descendants of a man we call Pocahontas James Ewing, who we
presume to be the youngest son of John Ewing of Carnashannagh (Carnashannagh
is in Fahan parish on the Innishowen penninsula). You can see the Group
Relationship diagram of this family at
http://www.clanewing.org/DNA_Project/DNA_ProjectResults/groups/Y-DNA_Relations_Group_04.html
The five men who have YCA-IIb = 22 are the five rightmost on the chart.

I don't know the Doherty modal, but I doubt that it matches the marker
values characteristic of the large group of closely related American Ewings
that are off-modal for R1b1c7. The "Ewing" markers are (in descending order
of specificity): DYS442 = 11, DYS19 = 15, DYS456 = 18 and DYS449 = 31. All
five members of the branch of the Ewing family that have YCA-IIb = 22 all
have the "Ewing" values on the other four markers in question. Presuming
that the Doherty haplotypes have none or almost none of these, we have to
conclude there were parallel mutations in these two lines, notwithstanding
that this is a very slowly mutating marker.

If I run a Ysearch on my own haplotype, VPNY2 (GD 1 from the Ewing modal),
for 37 marker matches within GD 6, I turn up 8 surnames that are not Ewings.
None of these have the characteristic Ewing markers at DYS442, DYS19 and
DYS456. Three of them (Cullivan, Carey and Devine) have the "Ewing" value at
DYS449, but they are still genetic distance five or six from the Ewing
modal. A man named Blaney is GD 6 from my haplotype (and 5 from the Ewing
modal) on 67 markers, but differs from the Ewing modal at all four of the
characteristic "Ewing" markers.

Though I am open to the idea of an NPE giving rise to the large group of
R1b1c7 American Ewings, I certainly don't "want" to prove this. Indeed, if I
were to permit myself "wants" in the matter, I should very much prefer to
prove otherwise. Indeed, if someone shows me an Irish lineage that matches
the Ewing modal, I am going to allow as how it is possible that this
resulted from an NPE in that group where it was a Ewing in the woodpile (so
to speak), rather than vice versa. The whole point of my having raised the
question, lo these many messages ago, is that we need to keep our eyes open
to such possibilities.

David Ewing

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