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Archiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2008-02 > 1203641830
From:
Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] Age of R1b1c7
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:57:10 EST
In a message dated 2/21/2008 8:48:03 A.M. Central Standard Time,
writes:
But what a coincidence this is! There may have been twenty different
haplotype clusters of unrelated Ewing families in Scotland and members of
only one of these seem to have immigrated to Donegal. If members of one of
twenty different unrelated Ewing families immigrated to Donegal, what a
coincidence it is that they happened to be those who had precisely the
haplogroup typical of their destination! Coincidences happen; this could
have been one--indeed, that is our presumption. But doesn't a coincidence of
this kind make you want to scratch your head?
I have to admit it's quite a coincidence. I recently went through Ysearch
and Sorenson looking for R1b1c7 samples in which the testees stated an origin
in Donegal, L'Derry and Tyrone. I added a few more with typically Donegal
surnames. Out of 136 samples only 12 were not R1b1c7. The list I compiled was
heavy with Dohertys and McLaughlins, the two most heavily tested surnames in
Donegal. But even if you knock these groups down to two samples a piece
you'd still have 12 of 116 samples that were not R1b1c7. A large group of
Gallaghers (5) also were not R1b1c7 vs. 8 that were. But some of these might
represent a different sept of Gallaghers elsewhere in Ireland.
I also looked at the Trinity study of 59 typically Ui Neill surnames. Out
of these 35 appear to be R1b1c7. 24 are not. This group included septs
from Donegal, Tyrone and representatives of some of the major Connacht septs.
This study doesn't tell us which surnames match and which don't. The samples
ae all identified as UN plus a number.
Trinity college placed the percentage of IMH or R1b1c7 at 21.5% for exact
modal matches and 1 step derivatives.
"The IMH distribution is uneven, showing a distinct frequency peak in
northwestern
Ireland, where it accounts for 16.9% of Y chromosomes (21.5% when one-step
derivatives are included)."
Northewestern Ireland is Donegal. I don't know if they included the
Connacht samples in that territory. It could be my own sample is biased in that I
only took DNA tests where people stated their ancestors came from Donegal,
L'Derry or Tyrone.
You would think an NPE could hardly be detected against this background
milieu of R1b1c7. But the Dohertys and McLaughlins both have some very
distinctive marker combinations which set them apart. These figures are not up to
date but I have a spreadsheet of Dohertys, of which 50 are R1b1c7. They have
a very distinctive marker, YCAIIb = 22 which almost none of the McLaughlins
share. Six of these 50 are 25 marker tests, so you have 44 which can be
used. Out of these 44, 35 have YCAii = 22. Not a single one of our R1b1c7
McLaughlins from Donegal have this value. On the other hand we do have a few
shared values amongst these two families. For example, among our McLaughlins DYS
447 = 24 is universal. In the Dohertys 8 of 46 have this value.
What can i conclude from this? There doesn't seem to be much evidence of
NPEs among McLaughlins and Dohertys, despite sharing the same territory (a
piece of Donegal, the Inishowen Peninsula) for some 700 years. In fact in the
entire group of Dohertys there is only one who matches the McLaughlin DNA
completely. He may be an NPE. So far no McLaughlins have surfaced matching the
Doherty DNA, although I'm sure we'll find some eventually.
Neither of these DNA groups match the Ewing DNA. It has its own
distinctive markers. Nor does the Ewing DNA match any of the other groups we've seen
so far in Donegal, such as the O'Gallaghers, who like the Dohertys and
McLaughlins, have their own distinctive DNA marker (DYS 458 = 16). The Ewings
settled in northern Raphoe parish on the border with Inishowen but most moved
into Inishowen itself where you find them in various locations, including the
Island of Inch and near Templemore parish and the city of Derry. The Dohertys
and McLaughlins were the two largest DNA groups in Inishowen, but there were
scores of other surnames associated with the region.
As a rough guide to surnames in Inishowen you could take the 1659 census
listing of principal Irish surnames.
O Barr (7), O Brillaghan (23), O Boyle (8), O Cally (22), McCallin (15), O
Callane & O Cullane (12,27), O Conagill (9), O Carran (16), O Currin (3, 19),
O Carny (10), McCollgan (30), McConway (6), O Callaghan (8), O Doghertye
(203), O Doy (6), O Deuer (8), McDevet (27), O Donell (20), O Dermond (35), O
Deveny (9), O Farran (14), McGlaghlin (76), O Granny (6), McGillneske (8), O
Gollogher (12), O Herrall (8), O Hegerty (23), O Harkan (21), O Knawsie (9), O
Kelly (11), McKay (6), O Lunshaghan (22), McLaughlin (63), O Luog (9), O
Mrisane (7), O Moran (6), O Mulloy (7), McMurray (8), O Muncy (8), Porter (11), O
Quigley (25), O Rodan (13), O Sheale (8), O Towlan (14), McVagh (6).
If the Ewings don't match the McLaughlins and Dohertys, then if an NPE
occurred in Donegal the above list of surnames would seem your likely
candidates. Some of these surnames have different modern forms. O Mrisane =
O'Morrison. O Dermond = MacDermot. O Lunshaghan = Lynch. McGillneske = [possibly]
McGlinchey.
I think if you want to prove an NPE among the Ewings in Donegal and some
native R1b1c7 you'd have to find some of the Ewing distinctive markers in some
native family in Donegal.
John
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