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Archiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2008-02 > 1203270201

From: "David Ewing" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] Age of R1b1c7
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 10:43:21 -0700

I have received a reply from Ken Nordtvedt off-list to my earlier posting
about what methodology we should use to estimate the age of R1b1c7. He
expressed his intention to join the list and post his reply directly, but if
that doesn't appear today, I will post what he sent to me this afternoon or

Meanwhile, we should be cautious about "using the Ewings as a control
group," because although we are "certain" that the name originated in
Strathclyde in the southeastern Lowlands of Scotland, we can't be sure that
the Y-DNA of the large group of closely related American Ewings originated
there. Most American Ewings that have a paper trail of any depth document
their earliest known ancestor in Donegal, and virtually all of these are
R1b1c7. About a third of Ewings tested are diverse sorts of R1b1 and four
are in Hg I. You can see this distribution graphically in the network
diagram posted at

A number of the non-R1b1c7 American Ewings, including some descended from
relatively recent immigrants from Scotland, document their earliest known
ancestor in Scotland. A couple of Scots that have joined the project are
also R1b1 but not R1b1c7. I should emphasize that this correlation of R1b1c7
with Ewings in Donegal and other R1b1 with Ewings in Scotland is not
perfect--there are some exceptions to the rule, and quite a large number of
individuals in both groups on whom we do not have deep enough conventional
genealogy to decide where their immigrant ancestor originated.

We have concluded that this is because only a small number of related Ewings
immigrated to Donegal from Scotland, and that their descendants comprised
most of the early Ewing immigrants to America, so we see the
disproportionate representation of R1b1c7 among American Ewings as the
result of a founder effect among the small group that immigrated from
Scotland to Ireland. We should not neglect another possibility that will be
exceedingly unwelcome to many Ewings. That is that we may have picked up our
Y-DNA from an Irishman in Donegal, but didn't bother picking up his surname.
It is a wise child that knows his own father, as the saying goes.


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