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Archiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2008-02 > 1202066524


From: "Marie Kerr" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] Southern Ui Neill DNA
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 14:55:23 -0500
In-Reply-To: <bde.28a01220.34d6c2c4@aol.com>


Perhaps someone can enlighten me. I'm confused about the significance of
being R1b1c7 in relation to the level of DNA testing. Is a Ui Neill DNA
linkage indicated simply by matching at the 12 marker level? If so, then
that would seem to cast a wide net. I was under the impression that deeper
testing would be more enlightening, and would in fact help in understanding
both the Ui Neill DNA connection as well as migration patterns.

Why wouldn't everyone involved want to be tested to the 67th level? It
would seem to narrow the groups and answer some of the speculating that goes
on in this forum.

Marie Golden Kerr (on behalf of my father, James J. Golden)



-----Original Message-----
From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 2:10 AM
To:
Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] Southern Ui Neill DNA

I put together a list of surnames which appear to be R1b1c7 in the Trinity
spreadsheet. This is from their DNA study of 1125 or so surnames spread
across Ireland and not the smaller Ui Neill study. Since it's only 12
markers I
couldn't be sure all of the samples were R1b1c7. My main criteria at 12
markers was DYS 390 = 25, DYS 385ab = 11,13 and DYS 392 = 14.

I don't know if there are any surprises here or not. If the totals do not
agree it's because some samples said "don't know" for the origin. For me
the
biggest surprise is probably McGuinness in Ulster with 11 samples and 10 in

Connacht. The main body of the clan in NE Ireland is haplogroup I. We
even
see it in Munster in a few McCarthy and O'Sullivan samples and in Leinster
with
some Kellys and Byrnes.

Some of these surname samples are majority R1b1c7 (Bradley, Haughey,
McGinley, McGinn, McGinty, McGovern, O'Connor, O'Reilly, O'Rourke - but
these are
all Ui Neill or Connachta surnames). In others you just see a few
(O'Sullivan, McCarthy). There are 70 McCarthy samples in the file; 70
O'Sullivan
samples. McGuinness has a huge number as well.

I guess the lesson here is R1b1c7 can pop up anywhere, even in clans with
pedigrees which are apparently not descended from Nial or his brothers. On

the other hand all we see is a small scattering of R1b1c7 DNA among
surnames
that are not said to descend from Nial or his brothers.
In some of the surnames it's unclear what their clan origins might be. The

major exception to this statement would have to be the O'Neills, with 14
R1b1c7 samples out of 80.


Bradley 12 all in Ulster
Brady 1 Connacht
Byrne 9 5 in Ulster, 3 in Leinster
Coulter 1 in Ulster
Donohoe 2, 1 in Ulster
Dunleavy 5, 2 in Leinster, 1 in Munster, 1 in Connacht, 1 in Ulster
Egan 7, 4 in Munster, 2 in Connacht
Haughey 14, 13 in Ulster
Heaney 3, 2 in Ulster
Kelly 10, 5 in Leinster, 3 in Ulster, 1 in Connacht, 1 in Munster
Kennedy 8, 3 in Connacht, 2 in Ulster
McCarthy 2, both in Munster
McEvoy 2, 1 in Leinster
McGinley 15, all in Ulster
McGinn 12, 11 in Ulster
McGinty 12, 11 in Ulster
McGovern 7, 5 in Ulster, 2 in Connacht
McGuinness 25, 11 in Ulster, 10 in Connacht, 3 in Leinster
McNeice, 2 in Ulster
Murphy 8, 4 in Leinster, 4 in Ulster
O'Connor 4, all in Connacht
O'Gara 4, all in Ulster
O'Hara 1, in Connacht
O'Hare 12, 9 in Ulster, 2 in Leinster
O'Neill 14, 9 in Ulster, 2 in Leinster
O'Reilly 5, 4 in Ulster, 1 in Connacht
O'Rourke 2, 1 in Connacht, 1 in Leinster
O'Sullivan 2, 1 in Munster, 1 in Leinster
Rooney 2, 1 in Ulster, 1 in Leinster
Ryan 6, 2 in Munster, 3 in Connacht, 1 in Leinster

Totals

Ulster 126
Connacht 30
Leinster 26
Munster 11


John




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