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From:
Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] Southern Ui Neill DNA
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 19:53:56 EST
In a message dated 1/31/2008 1:51:35 P.M. Central Standard Time,
writes:
*O'Nolan: The History of a People, 2.*
>
> *"By right of their descent from Cobhtach, Caol mBreagh, eldest son of
> Ugaine Mor, 66th. Milesian Monarch of Ireland, A. M. 4567, the O'Nolan's
are
> the senior Sept of the Heremonian line in Leinster. The O'Neils and
> O'Donnels of the North and the O'Connors of the West trace their
> genealogical line to Cobhtach, but all Leinster septs, O'Nolan excepted,
> derive their descent from Laeghaire Lorc, second son of Ugaine Mor."*
I shudder when I seen someone quoting the name Heremon as if it means
anything. The Ui Neill and the Kings of Leinster (Lagin) are indeed linked in
the pedigrees as described. But that was a genealogical fiction, designed to
link all of the various tribes of Ireland to the line of Heremon, Heber, Ir or
Ith. Going back this far in fabricated pedigrees to prove anything is
ridiculous. A. M. 4567 = Anno Mundo 4567 or 4567 BC.
There is a pedigree for O'Nolan in O'Clery.
(Page 173). GENELACH .H. NUALLAIN
1733. (Col. a). Seaan m Domhnaill m Seaain m Taidhg m Donnchadha m Amalgadha
m Ughaire m Mail seachlainn crodeirg m Echada m Echach oig m Eachach find m
Danloing m Ele m Con medha m Dungusa m Murchada, m Nuallain m Faelain m
Dunainn m Dunghusa m Conghaile m Ferghusa m Maonaigh m Finain (col. b) m Ronain m
Echach m Baithin m Ninnedha m Feig m Iaair m Eirc m Catbaidh m Munda m Airt
chirb m Cairpre niadh m Corbmaic m Aonghusa m Echach finn fuath n-airt m
Fedlimthe rechtmair m.Tuathail techtmair.
This might be what the gentleman is referring to. The earliest ancestor is
Tuathail techtmair, who also appears in the Ui Neill pedigree some 10
generations prior to Nial. The same basic pedigree appears in the Deisi (Col. c).
GENELACH .H. FAOLAIN). From the next name in the pedigree (Fedlimthe
rechtmair) are said to descend Conn 'of the Hundred Battles', the Fothairt, the
Déisse and the Corcco Roída. We're in the realm of mythology here, and artificial
mythology at that.
There probably is a reason why these tribes were connected genealogically to
Tuathal Teachtmar. O'Rahilly might have something to say on the subject. I
suspect he'll say they were vassal tribes of the Ui Neill of Tara and really
Lagin in origin (or something else) but I'd have to check to be sure.
Most historians don't believe a word of the pedigrees until about the time
of Nial (400-450 AD). And even those are suspect in some minds.
<To answer another question, why don't we see more R1b1c7 descendants of the
Southern O'Neill in Leinster - the simple answer is that the various English
clearances, removed them. All of the original 7 Septs of County Leix were
moved to County Kerry in the extreme South West for example - under the
auspices of Queen Mary aka "Bloody Mary". Who established Fort Protector in
the center of the county - later to become Portlaoise - and colonized the
surrounding area with Englishmen. Later Cromwell would be responsible for
exterminating nearly 40% of the native Irish - mostly in Leinster, as this
is where the land is most fertile. His famous saying was, "To hell or to
Connaught", although most able-bodies native Irish were not actually sent to
Connaught, but sold as slaves to the West Indies. Many of these would later
escape and make their way to South America or to the Southern US states.
Many Whites in the Southern US states are thus the descendants of these
Irish slaves...
I think you're right about this. Plus the Norman invasion unseated a lot of
Irish chieftains formerly holding territory in the midlands. It was barely
a factor in the NW. The Norman De Burgos moved into Donegal for about 100
years near Derry, built a large castle at the tip of the Inishowen Peninsula
(Greencastle) then withdrew from the area. They were a much less disruptive
force in the NW where R1b1c7 is so plentiful.
John
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