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Archiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2008-01 > 1201752002


From: "Paul Conroy" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] Southern Ui Neill DNA
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 23:00:02 -0500
References: <cb1.23b7295b.34d274e9@aol.com>
In-Reply-To: <cb1.23b7295b.34d274e9@aol.com>


John,

I grew up in Ireland, my grandmother was a Dunne, my next door neighbour was
a Dunne, the home I grew up in "Raheennahown House" was home to the once
famous Dunne's of Raheennahown - MP in London and Majors in the British army
in India. I'm also a fluent Irish Gaelic speaker, and in my youth spend 5
summers living among native speakers of the language in Connemara, West
Galway and Dingle, West Kerry - I've been told that when I talk in my sleep,
it is sometimes in Gaelic...

Almost 30 years ago, when I was 17, I was elected to the committee of the
Laois Heritage Society, and one of the things we did was to republish a
limited edition of of a rare Laois history book called, "History of the
Queen's County" by Canon O'Hanlon - there were only 2 copies in existance at
the time - I happen to own a reprint and that's where I got the information
on Conn na Ratha.

Rith = to run
Ras = race (I'm not putting in the "fada" over the "a", as I don't know the
character code for it)
na ratha = of the race - genitive case

Conn = Person's name
Cu = Hound
Rath = Circular Iron age dwelling - the house I grew up in was called after
the twin little Raths, overlooking a stream, extant on one side of the
driveway onto the property. Raheennahown (Irish Gaelic: Rathin na hAbhainn)
=the little raths by the river, nothing to so with prosperity.

Hope that helps.

Cheers,
Paul


On Jan 30, 2008 7:48 PM, <> wrote:

> In a message dated 1/30/2008 2:52:03 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> writes:
> Let's not get out terms/names mixed up:
>
> The O'Duinn name from Laois/Offaly is anglicized as Dunne - NOT Dunn. The
> territory was Ui Reagan and was anglicized as Iregan.
>
> O'Donovan used the spelling Dunn to refer to both septs. That's what I
> was
> quoting, viz.:
>
> Topographical Poems
>
> Let us raise up for Teamhair, more
> Of kings with great courage;
> His yoke has tamed each battalion,
> O'Duinn54 over the districts of Teamhair.
>
> 54. O'Duinn. - This family is also totally unknown for centuries. It
> cannot
> be distinguished from the O'Duinns or Dunns, of Iregan.
>
> The O'Brogarbhains371 of townlands,
> The Clann Chionaoith,372 the Clann Conchbhair,373
> They spend their lands on knowledge,
> The O'Duinns374 and the O'Diomasaighs.375
>
> 374. O'Duinns, i.e., the family of O'Doyne, or Dunn, of Iregan, now the
> barony of Portnahinch in the Queen's county. Colonel Francis Dunne, M.P.
> is the
> present head of this family.
>
> There is a pedigree in O'Clery for the O'Duinns of Iregan.
>
> GENELACH UI DHUINN
>
> 1771. Ruaidri m Donnchada m Amalgada (col. c) m Amalgadha m Taidhg m
> Amalgadha m Con rnhuighe m Duinn slebhe m Con mhuighe m Cerbaill m Con
> bladma m
> Conallaigh m Fithchellaigh m Duinn (o fuilit h. Duinn) m Duibh ghiolla m
> Mail
> fhionna m Riagain m Cionaedha m Flainn da conghal.
>
> Flainn da conghal is listed in the pedigrees as a descendant of Cathoir
> Mor,
> the same line as UI CONCHOBAIR FAILGHE. This pedigree connects with the
> Lagin of Leinster, the same tribe as the O'Brynes, MacMurroughs,
> Cavanagh,
> Ryans, etc., all of which match the Leinster modal or Irish Sea modal;
> definitely
> not R1b1c7.
>
> McLysaght mentions a family of Leix/Offaly - O Conrahy - O Conratha - and
> states it is often changed to Conroy.
>
> That would seem to fit your description:
>
> "The name as I outlined previously was originally derived from Conn
> Dunne,
> who ran a great distance to warn the Irish of an invading army of English
> soldiers, and so was given
> the eponym "Conn na Ratha" - Conn of the Race, or Conn the Racer - which
> was
> anglicized to Conrahy and later to Conroy."
>
> A note from Woulfe derives the surname from "rath" or " prosperity,"
> which
> McLsaght states is doubtful.
>
> Conratha and Conn na Ratha would appear to be two distinct forms. Others
> translate the surname Conratha as ""hound of prosperity."
>
> At least one web site connects the O Conrathas of Leix/Offaly to the
> McCoughlans.
>
> "there was also a not unimportant sept called O Conratha, alias
> MacConratha,
> of the same stock as the MacCoughlans of Offaly. Their arms are quite
> different from those of O'Mulcrony."
>
> The O Clery Book of Genealogies list a pedigree for McCoughlan, followed
> by
> one for MEIC CON RAOI, which is probably the source of the above
> statement.
> Like the McCoughlans, this pedigree ends in Delbna m Cais m Conaill
> echluaith.
>
> GENELACH MEIC CON RAOI
>
> 2019. Concobar m Concobair m Domhnaill m Concobhair m Domhnaill m
> Donnchadha
> m Donnchadha m Ferghusa m Diermada m Concobair m Con raoi m Amlaibh m
> Luighdech m Baedain m Site m Cais m Luighdech m Luachain m Finnellaigh m
> Dunghusa m
> Dungalaigh m Comghaill m Sarain m Mallthola m Othain m Baedain m Gno bicc
> m
> Delbna m Cais m Conaill echluaith.
>
> This would appear to be a Thomond pedigree (O'Brien) . But Kenneth
> Nichols
> has written a long article on the pedigree of the McCoughlans of Delvin
> in
> the Irish Genealogist in which he concludes the pedigree was a medieval
> fabrication.
>
>
> < Conn Dunne, who ran a great distance to warn the Irish of an invading
> army
> of English soldiers, and so was given the eponym "Conn na Ratha" - Conn
> of
> the Race, or Conn the Racer - which was
> anglicized to Conrahy and later to Conroy.
>
> What's your source for this statement?
>
> Lastly I looked up "race" in several Irish dictionaries. Race is given
> as
> ras and in some forms, Rith.
> Rath is translated as "properity." Race as a noun is "reis."
>
> I'm finding all kinds of contradictory information on the Conroy family of
> Offaly/leix. Could the surname come from Mac Con Raoi of the O'Clery
> genealogies? If so why is the form of the surname quoted by Woulfe &
> McLysaght O
> Conratha? Mac and O were often interchangeable forms so that doesn't
> mean much.
> If the Mac Con Raoi of O'Clery are not O Conratha than who are they?
> They
> too have the name Delbna in their pedigree (Delvin in Offaly).
>
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
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>
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