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Subject: [DNA-R1B1C7] Southern Ui Neill DNA
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 01:42:54 EST


Does anyone have any southern Ui Neill DNA samples? I have tons of NW Irish
R1b1c7 from Donegal, L'Derry and Tyrone; and lots of R1b1c7 from Connacht
surnames, but almost no samples from the southern Ui Neill. I find this
strange since the southern Ui Neill are said to also descend from different sons of
Nial.

After lots of looking on Ysearch and Sorenson, I can only find a few samples
that "might" be southern Ui Neill.

U7NDR Dunn U.S.
3G5W3 Dunne Kings/Offaly, Ireland
9U9YM Flanagan Dromore - County Tyrone, Ireland
A2GCJ Molloy Tipperary, Ireland
SMGF Geoghegan Westmeath

The two strongest in this list are Geoghegan and Molloy, both said to
descend from Fiachach m. Neill. There are Dunns (o Duinn) listed in the
Topographical Poems in Meath as chieftains of Tara but I have no documentation that
says they are southern Ui Neill. According to O'Donovan, these were different
than the Dunns of Iregan. There is a pedigree for O Duinn of Offaly which
connects them to the O'Conor failge stock. But these are probably not R1b1c7
but Lagin.

54. O'Duinn. - This family is also totally unknown for centuries. It cannot
be distinguished from the O'Duinns or Dunns, of Iregan.

374. O'Duinns, i.e., the family of O'Doyne, or Dunn, of Iregan, now the
barony of Portnahinch in the Queen's county. Colonel Francis Dunne, M.P. is the
present head of this family.

O'Flannagan is a surname that appears in the Fir Tethbha. And I've seen
from recent posts that Conroy may be related to the Dunnes.

DNA seems to have validated the relationship between the northern Ui Neill
and the Connachta. But samples are still lacking for the southern Ui Neill.
The other tribe said to descend from the same stock, the Airgialla or
descendants of the Three Collas, seem not to be R1b1c7 at all. None of their
chieftains in historical times are R1b1c7, including the Maguires, McMahons and
O'Hanlons, all of which appear in the Trinity study database.

The southern Ui Neill were not a single tribe but a group of tribes said to
descend from different sons of Nial.

1. Conal Cremthaine (O'Melaghlin, O'Connelly)
2. Laegaire (O'Connellan, Quinlan)
3. Maine (Fox, O'Kearney)
4. Cairbre (O'Flannagan)
5. Fiachach (O'Molloy, McGeoghegan)

For me, this is one of the remaining mysteries of irish R1b1c7.


John



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