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Archiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2008-01 > 1201439951


From: "" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] FTDNA Panel 4 Stability
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 05:19:11 -0800
References: <479C2931.7030006@melbpc.org.au> <479C2D4B.7060506@ibssg.org><479C55C0.70608@melbpc.org.au>
In-Reply-To: <479C55C0.70608@melbpc.org.au>


J. David Grierson wrote:
> Jeff,
> Thanks for your prompt response. In determining mutations per
> generation, I am partly influenced by the fact that I am identical (at
> 37 anyway) with my Great Grandfather, ie three generations (and I
> strongly suspect that will be true at 67). So can we fit 6,7 or 8
> mutations into the approximately 28 generations since the name Grierson
> was first recorded? If so, your argument holds. If not, I am back to my
> ultimate statement.
>

Simply, if they are using a very similar surname, then the family
should have been closely associated at the time that surname came into
use, that doresn't mean they were not having those traits many centuries
previous to the surname.

I can not speak on the History of the DNA/chromosomes changes and
mutations, because I am a layman in that field, but logic dictates that
the mutations, many or few, are not set on a schedule, they happen as
far as we know randomly, and theoretically 6-7 changes could happen in
one generation (all at once) or over centuries... There is no way to
date the changes unless you have a sample to compare for each
generation. All else is speculation.

To establish a long term comparison, testing the OLDEST member living in
a line would be a start, and testing all of the living generations,
although it may take many generations to establish a usable database.
(exhuming all of your ancestors may do it slightly quicker, but good
luck on that....)


Jeff
> I would like your opinion on the first question - if you have one -
> which is, if Panel 4 = R1b1c7 modal, does that make the candidate a
> member of that sub-clade?.
>
> No, I haven't yet looked globally for DYS444=13, DYS442=13, not least
> because I'm not sure how to do this without much labour!! But I will.
> Regards
> David
>
> wrote:
>
>
>> I would suggest that coincidence aside, that the results that clearly
>> identify by a very similar surname, can not predate the use of surnames,
>> otherwise this surname grouping would not occur.
>>
>> Even though the trait in genetics may go much further back than the
>> surnames do, the focused group must be post-surname usage, and thus
>> have a common point of divergence in surname usage at or after the use
>> of surnames came into convention for that family.
>>
>> Have you looked globally for others with matches, that have the common
>> trait you are looking at,
>>
>> DYS444? Outside the 'official' R1B1c7 group?
>>
>>
>>
>
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--


Jeffery G. Scism, IBSSG
~~

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