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From:
Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] Dohertys and YCAab = 19-22
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 22:19:57 EST



In a message dated 1/22/2008 5:35:25 P.M. Central Standard Time,
writes:

John to respond to your email, yes we do have a history in Scotland but I
will start in Ireland with Aodh Alainn born abt 1037 in Ulster Ireland and
his son, Dunsleve moved to Loch Fine Scotland and there they stayed for
about 18 generations, then Iain (John) MacLachlan went back to Ireland were
he died, his son Adam born 1698 in Ireland got on a ship and settled in PA.



What you're quoting here is a version of the Anradan kindred origin story
for the Maclachlans of Argyllshire. Aedh Alainn is the son of Anradan son of
Aodh Athlaman, the King of Aileach and great-grandson of Flaithbertach an
trostain, who died in 1036 A.D. Aodh Alainn is apparently the same person
identified in other versions of the pedigrees as Buirch. The tale is an
intriguing one for R1b1c7 McLaughlins from Scotland because the O'Neills of Ireland
should also be R1b1c7 as descendants of Nial 'of the Nine Hostages' and
descendents of this same Aodh Athlaman and Flaitbertach an trostain.

I'm addressing this not so much to yourself but to anyone on the list who
might find the subject interesting.

This raises an interesting question though because the great majority of
O'Neills in Ulster from the traditional homeland counties of the O'Neills are
not R1b1c7. The Trinity study lists 8 R1b1c7 O'Neills from Ulster versus 19
who are not R1b1c7 plus three O'Neills of non matching haplogroups (two I
haplogroup and one R1a). Even worse the non R1b1c7 O'Neills appear to break
down into two further non matching groups (13 vs. 6).

So if the Anradan kindred in Scotland are descended from the O'Neills of
Ireland, which DNA group should they match? And why are the R1b1c7 O'Neills in
Ulster so greatly outnumbered by non matching O'Neills? We don't have any
DNA samples from any of the recognized O'Neill chieftains which might shed some
light on the issue. There are some McShane DNA samples (said to descend
from the O'Neills) which match the largest group of non R1b1c7 O'Neills in
Ireland. This suggests that at least one line of O'Neill chieftains are not
R1b1c7. There were two great branches of the O'Neills in Ulster (Tryone and
Clannaboy). Plus a sub-branch of Tyrone in Armagh called the Fews. The main two
branches split apart in a fairly well documented pedigree affirmed by the
Irish annals from two sons of Aodh Ua Neill ' the lazy youth', slain 1177 A.D.

The main group of non R1b1c7 O'Neill DNA doesn't seem to match much of
anything in Ireland (except as noted a few McShanes).

The modal for the largest group of non R1b1c7 O'Neills is:

13-24-14-11-12-15-[12]-12-11-13-13-30

DYS 426 is in parenthesis because Trinity did not test this marker.

The second group of non matching O'Neills is as follows:

13-24-14-11 or 10-11-14-[12]-12-12-13-13-29

One interesting test that might be accomplished is testing the chieftains of
both the Tyrone and Clannaboy line, assuming some chieftains exist and their
descent is not fudged. If they match then the conclusion is inevitable that
the DNA carried back to Aodh 'the lazy youth' O'Neill, slain in 1177, direct
ancestor of both branches.

One interesting match is McNally (per McLysaght, Mac Con Uladh or the hound
of Ulster). it mainly seems to be an Oriel (Airgialla) surname.

The Trinity study did not address the question of O'Neill DNA nor did they
it include the surname in their list of IMH surnames from NW Ireland, a curious
omission, since the O'Neills were the dominant dynasty of the descendants of
Nial in Ulster. One person associated with the Trinity study suggested that
the R1b1c7 O'Neills were the true line and the non matching O'Neills were
interlopers taken into the clan as followers (Patrick Guinness).


John









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