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Archiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2008-01 > 1200974139


From: Steven Lominac <>
Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] Some Musings on R1b1c7
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 21:55:39 -0600
References: <ce8.2490e639.34c4ae35@aol.com>
In-Reply-To: <ce8.2490e639.34c4ae35@aol.com>


I couldn't help but notice that the surname Kenelman has most of the letters that make up Lameneck. I also couldn't help but notice in familysearch that there are a lot of this family name Kenel, Kenelmen (various spellings) in Germany including the Pfalz as early as 1565. As we know, many Gaels turned their names inside out when they were on the run/ displaced etc. I know, I know, it's a shot in the dark but I'm leaving no stone unturned lol. Steve

> From: > Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 09:01:25 -0500> To: > Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] Some Musings on R1b1c7> > > John> > Thanks. Heres the background to the term Kenelman. At the back of "The > Register of the Great Seal of Scotland" in Appendix II, there are two printed > lists of Indexes, Index A and Index B, compiled by two separate Scottish royal > clerks and based on rolls, which perished in the shipwreck of 1660. > > Index A, the older and written in Latin, is believed to have been compiled > by James Makgill of Rankeilor, clerk register from 1554 to 1579. > > Index B, known as Robertson's Index, is believed to have been compiled by > Sir John Hamilton of Magdalens, clerk register between 1622 and 1632. Index B > is written in the Scots vernacular.> > The indexes contained in many cases the only source of reference to charters > now lost dating from the Reign of Robert the Bruce onwards, including his > son, David II. The Clan Kenelman is recorded in his reign. > > Index A: “Michaelis Mcgorth quod sit capitanus de parentela de Kenclanen”. > > Index B: “Carta anent the clan of Kenelman”.> > As you can see, the first - written in Latin, is probably a copy of the > heading of the original charter. Kencl should probably be Kenel, as it appears in > the Index B. The second part of the name is less clear. What is Anen or Man? > Proff. Watson suggests Kenelman may be for ‘Cenel Maine’, though Kenclanen > was meaningless to him. The fact that this Clan is dubbed a Clan in 1344, > suggests the Kenel had become a recognised part of the name Man, in much the same > way Munntir had become the first element of the name Muntercasduff by 1344, > when John McKennedy was appointed captain of the "Clan" Muntercasduff. The > names Kenelman and Muntercasduff both point to Gaelic practices of naming > family groups. To me, Muntercasduff points to a family that grew up around a > religious community, whereas, Kenel points to something slightly different. Not > sure what though?> > In my article _Brittonic-A_ > (http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~alanmilliken/Research/DNAStudies/Brittonic-A.html) I attempt to trace how the name > Muntercasduff evolved from a particular person, as in the case of > Muntercoultan. In both cases, we are looking a patriarch who lived pre-1100. I haven't > been able to draw the same level of observation with the name Kenelman. So > many of the native Gallwegians were pushed down the social ladder by the 1300s, > it is difficult to know what shape the clan structure took prior to this > period. > > In relation to the Amuliganes, something has always puzzled me. I found a > reference to an Omoligane in or near Dublin in 1264, along with the name > McDowall. I also came across a DNA result from an O'Mulligan of West Meath, that is > very similar to our own. It is only a phonetic change from Omoligane to > Amuligane. The Acarson family from Galloway appears to have been actively > involved in Scotland's affairs with the Isles of Man and certainly around the Irish > Sea coastline. Several years ago, when I was doing some research in Dublin, I > came across a coat of Arms that was almost identical to ours. It was very > old and belonged to the merchant guild of Dublin! I'm beginning to wonder if I > am looking in the wrong direction and should be looking more south towards > Dublin. > > Alan> > > In a message dated 20/01/2008 03:40:22 GMT Standard Time, > writes:> > In a message dated 1/19/2008 7:34:26 A.M. Central Standard Time, > writes:> About this > > time, Michael McGorth was appointed captian or chief of the "Kenelman" or > Maine > in Galloway. As far as I can determine, the reference to the Gaelic term > "Kenel" in Kenelman, is the only one to be found in Galloway. > > > That's a strange reference, Alan. What does the Maine part mean? Is Maine > the same as "man" in Kenelman? If so that would read Cenel Maine. That > should be a tribe reference with an ancestor named Maine. There were > several > Cenel Maines in Ireland, including the Cenel Maine of Tethba, said to > descend > from Maine, son of Nial (southern Ui Neill).> > An article in Wikipedia quotes Byrnes (Irish Kings and High Kings) on the > Cenel Maine of Tethba.> > "Maine of Tethba or Maine mac Néill was a supposed son of Niall > Noigiallach. > His existence is very doubtful. Writing of him in 1973, Irish historian > Francis John Byrne stated his belief that:> "We may suspect then that eastern Maine was so successfully absorbed into > the Uí Néill ambit that their kings, by a polite fiction, were accepted > into > the dominant dynasty circle ... The fact that the annalistic obit of Maine > mac > Néill in 440 is so much earlier than that of any of his supposed brothers > also suggests that he was adopted into the dynasty some time after the > synthetic > historians had agreed to push back the date of Niall's reign by a generation > or more."> > I can't speak for the entire history of Tethba or Teffia but one family at > least who were chieftains of the territory were dispersed by the Normans.> > "MacGiolla seachlainn, M'Galaghlin, MacGlaughlin, MacClachlin,> MacGlafilin, Claffin; son of Giolla seachainn (servant of St.> Secundinus).> > The name of an old Meath family who were lords of Southern> Breagh, until soon after the Anglo-Norman invasion, when they lost> their power and were dispersed. The present anglicised forms of> Mac Giolla Seaclainn cannot be distinguished from those of Mag> Loclainn, MacLachlainn, q.v.; but that the family is still extant> is shown by the variant Mac Giolla Seachlainn.> > Tethbha would have been located somewhere near Meath and Dublin.> > The name Maine also pops up in a lot of Scottish pedigrees from Skene's MS. > 1467.> > But I found this on your own web site: Kenclanen which doesn't make any > sense as a variant of Kenelman. It's interesting to see all those clann > and > cenel references in Galloway though. It must have meant something at one > time > if you could somehow ferret out the relationships involved.> > > > > **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. > http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489>; > > -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message> > > > > > > > > -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
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