DNA-R1B1C7-L Archives

Archiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2008-01 > 1200841739


From: Daniel Jenkins <>
Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] R1b1c7 and DYS 447 = 24
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 15:08:59 +0000
References: <c73.24697646.34c400b5@aol.com>
In-Reply-To: <c73.24697646.34c400b5@aol.com>


John ,
I know he was tested R1b* , but was comparing all Gallaghers not just R1b1c7.
Nothing wrong in that I think ., What caught my attention is that Shannon Hall of that line posted the Gallagher as Hugh from Donegal born about 1827 , and the Hugh Gallagher of Terri Rusts ' line is a close match to My Uncle . Her Hugh at Tenn. also arrived about same time as So just persuing all aves. of information .
R1B* would seem to be ancestral to R1b1c7 wouldn't it ?
R1b* can't be pinned down to any ancient name of geography so is interesting to me as I have other projects related to Scotland , England , and Ireland that I am working on where R1b* or R1b1c* shows up . I am not working in isolation just to Gallaghers . Thanks for the rest of the info. sent .
I will ask the leader of the Clan Gallagher reunion group if they are contemplating encouraging Y-DNA testing . They now have a name base of 1485 Gallaghers from the Clan reunion .
I am working on 2 Gallaghers that I met that have brick walls in the mid 1800s .

You are quite about the pedigrees being clouded , and I suspect at least 3 or more different lines of Gallaghers/ ? in Ireland .
Niall / R1b1c7 is only one of them . As to the most ancient R1b1c7 , I have no clue .
Please feel free to point out errors in my thinking to keep me on the right track .

Dan J.



> From: > Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 20:41:09 -0500> To: > Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] R1b1c7 and DYS 447 = 24> > > In a message dated 1/19/2008 6:15:56 A.M. Central Standard Time, > writes:> > Now what was surprising was the results of U3GXW , 13 off from above and > HPWFP 14 off , and they 18 off from each other .> This is showing some wide diversity .> > > > Dan, this Gallagher sample (U3GXW) is not R1b1c7. So you can't compare him > to your uncle's sample (92VDK) which is definitely R1b1c7. Apples and > oranges.> > I now have 10 Gallagher (and variants forms) DNA samples in my Donegal > spreadsheets. Exactly half are R1b1c7; half are not. There are also at least 3 > R1b1c7 Gallagher samples on the Sorenson site. Three more that are not R1b1c7 > but I haven't pulled the samples since it's so time consuming.> > One thing every R1b1c7 Gallagher sample has in common is DYS 458 = 16 > (except for one, DX85V, a Gallagher from Donegal, who has 14 at this marker. I'm > sure DNA experts could offer an explanation for the 14 instead of a 16. The > odd thing is three of the Gallagher samples that do not appear to be R1b1c7 > also have the unusual value of 16 at DYS 458 even though they mismatch at > almost every possible R1b1c7 modal value. I have no explanation for this. Except > it might be just coincidence.> > What immediately springs to mind is you could have two separate groups of > O'Gallaghers with different origins. Perhaps one Scottish, one Irish? Or a > group that evolved separately somewhere else in Ireland? Maybe the non > matching Gallaghers are interlopers into the Donegal clan? Just because we have > no records of Scottish Gallaghers or Gallaghers elsewhere in Ireland doesn't > mean there couldn't have been multiple origins for the surname.> > Look at the Doherty surname. By the time of the Griffith's the surname is > found to some degree in every single county in Ireland. But we know of only > one origin for the surname (Donegal). Plus a possible second origin in the > south (O'Doorty, or O Dubhartaigh). This surname almost certainly was > corrupted into the more familiar Doherty. McLysaght notes the surname became Doherty > in Cork. His map references to the surname include Tipperary, Clare and > Cork. I personally wouldn't be surprised to find some Dohertys native to > Scotland as well. But before anyone takes me to task for that I have to admit I > have no information whatsoever on possible Doherty surnames in Scotland.> > The Gallaghers are one of the Donegal families said to have taken part in > the migration to Mayo. There are lots of Gallaghers in the Mayo Griffiths. > But the one sample listing an origin in Mayo falls into the non R1b1c7 group. > > The only other thing I see that sets Gallaghers apart is three of five > R1b1c7 have DYS 460 = 12, a non modal value for R1b1c7. One Gallagher sample has > the DYS 447 = 24 noted in McLaughlins and Dohertys. Two have DYS 576 = 17, > another marker value common to McLaughlins.> > The Gallagher pedigree splits off not from the O'Donnells and Dohertys but > from the O Muldoraidhs and O Canannans of Donegal, chieftains of Tirconnell > prior to the rise of O'Donnell ca. 1200 AD. The O Muldoraidhs are extinct as > far as anyone knows (O'Donovan said he couldn't locate any in the early > 1800s). The O Canannans are probably still around as Canons or Cannons, a common > Donegal surname. But the pedigree of the O'Gallaghers is probably unreliable. > It's much too short in comparison with the O'Donnell and Doherty pedigrees. > All that means is it's not strictly historical. There are no O Muldoraidh > or O Canannan pedigrees which extend much past the 1200s when O'Donnell > became chieftain. Their pedigree was apparently suppressed by the O Clerys, bards > to the O'Donnells. Only one other sept is said to descend from this Cenel > Conaill line, the Mac Giolla Finneins, whose pedigree appears in the Fermanagh > Genealogies. It also compares poorly to the O'Donnell and O'Doherty > pedigrees for the same reason (much too short). The Mac Giolla Finneins held > territory not in Donegal but in neighboring Fermanagh, once claimed by the > O'Donnell chieftains. Their surname supposedly has evolved into Leonard. McLysaght > refers to the surname as McAleenen, McAlinion, McAlindon.> > The O'Donnell and Doherty pedigrees, in contrast, are remarkably consistent > in terms of generations and dates. Neither is fully traceable in the annals.> > > John> > > > > > **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. > http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489>; > -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
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