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Archiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2007-12 > 1198554578


From:
Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] r1b1c7 on the Continent?
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 22:49:38 EST


In a message dated 12/24/2007 8:18:10 A.M. Central Standard Time,
writes:

I'm looking at that one because of the proximity of the surname Lammerich
(Meisenheim) to my own ancestor Johan Jacob Lamineck's Weisweiler/Lauterecken
area (about 6 miles) just before he was born in 1705. Lammerich is a very
close phonetic approximation to my own.


Steve, your own family history is a pretty good example of what is probably
NOT Irish Wild Geese R1b1c7. In the LDS IGI the surname Lamineck seems to go
back to at least 1698 in Lauterecken, Pfalz, Bayern, a birth to a couple
named Hanss Georg Lamineck and Maria Susanna. In your entry on Ysearch you
mention the surname appears in that region from the early 1600s. Since the Wild
Geese phenomenon did not even begin until after the Flight of the Earls in
1607 (an isolated instance in itself - it occurred in Donegal and few
accompanied the "royalty"), it seems unlikely your surname could have been corrupted
from an Irish original or simply adopted in that time frame due to Wild
Goosehood. We have records in our clan society of a Wild Goose (that's terrible
but I can't resist it) named Darby McLaughlin, a 1st Lt. in Earl of Antrim's
Regiment, exiled in France, whose daughter in 1702 applied for a French
confirmation of arms and nobility. There was no name change here.

Another Wild Goose of sorts might be the ancestors of the O Dochartaigh
chieftains of Inishowen, who left Ireland for Spain in about 1790. They
settled with an uncle (a priest) and applied for certificates of nobility to join
the Spanish navy. In the 1791 census of foreigners in the Archivo Municipal
de Cadiz the surname is spelled "Dogerty" in one place and O'Deghsty in
another. Obviously corrupt be still recognizably connected to its Irish original.
Today the family still spells the surname Doherty.

Maybe some kind of name change/adoption occurred in the case of other Wild
Geese but it doesn't seem to fit Steve's case.

I know you've looked high and low for some Irish connection to your own
surname. And at one point found a reference to an Ua Lomanaigh in the annals.
But the original form of your surname is Lamineck and it apparently only
turned into Lominac on entry into the U.S., a common enough occurrence in which
foreign surnames were anglicized to into forms more palatable to the American
(ie, English) ear. I find it difficult to see any real connection between
the Irish Lomanaigh and the German Lamineck, especially since Lominaigh is not
an Irish surname today. Nor was it ever, as far as I can tell. The Ua
Lomanaigh of the annals might not be surname but just the literal use of Ua for
grandson of.

Steve also mentions he's found similar names elsewhere in Europe.

"Have also found similar sounding names centuries after the annals on the
Dutch/German border (Spelled Lumnich/Lumick/Lumich?) and later in Brittany area
of France (Lomenech) ...."

These matches might be closer to the truth than anything else. The last is
especially interesting since Little Brittany who settled by Celts from
Britain in the 5th century.

Most surnames outside of the Celtic areas of Ireland and Scotland are based
on place names or occupations. Have you had any further luck in finding
place names in Europe that might have given rise to a surname like Lamineck? Or
some kind of occupational name? I have no idea what language might lie
behind such a name.

Steve's case is extremely interesting since he's tested positive for M222+,
has well traced ancestors at an early date in Germany, and the surname has no
obvious Irish antecedents.

If not Wild Geese than what?


John







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