DNA-R1B1C7-L Archives

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Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] Non R1b1c7 O'Neills
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 21:34:10 EST

If anyone's interested in checking out the O'Neills of Ireland, the DNA of
the main group of non R1b1c7 O'Neills is as follows in the Trinity database:

13-24-14-11-12-15-[12]-12-11-13-13-30

DYS 436 was not tested by Trinity.

At 12 markers It's identical to several McShane DNA samples on Ysearch (the
McShanes were said to be a branch of the O'Neills).

36TNM McShane Desertmartin, Londonderry, Ireland
TNG73 McShane Ireland

13-24-14-11-12-15-12-12-11-13-13-30

It also matches an O'Neill from Mayo on Ysearch.

N9Q9Y O'Neill Mayo

The most usable sample here is the O'Neill sample. The McShane samples are
both just 12 marker tests. The Trinity tests are basically 12 marker tests
as well.

I don't see much in the way of matches that might give us a clue who the
main group of O'Neills really were. 7 of the samples came from Tyrone; 3 from
Derry; 1 from Donegal and 2 from Armagh. These counties were right in the
heartbed of O'Neill territory in Ireland. The R1b1c7 O'Neill samples were right
in the same place: 5 in Tyrone; 2 in Monaghan; 1 in Armagh.

The other group of O'Neill samples in the Trinity database were as follows:

13-14-14-11-11-14-[12] - 12-12-11-13-13-30

The difference here at 12 markers is at DYS 385ab. The main group has
12-15; the second group has 11-14.

My question to the DNA experts is are these two groups possibly related?
If so then the non R1b1c7 O'Neills might fall into one large group of 19
samples vs. 8 R1b1c7, which might change the complexion of any analysis
considerably. This third group of O'Neills are also mostly from the same part of
Ulster as the rest; 2 in Tyrone, 1 in Donegal, 2 in Antrim; one just says
"Ulster."

If we take the first twelve markers of the main group of O'Neills and
McShanes, 0 genetic distance, not much appears as matches in Ysearch:

6TNM McShane Desertmartin, Ulster, Ireland R1b* Family Tree DNA 24 0
7MSRP Goodfellow Ballymena, Northern Ireland R1b1 (tested) Family Tree
DNA 12 0
4C7MH McCullough Brockton, Mass, USA R1b1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 0
CBCSN O'Neal Unknown R1b1 (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 0
GY69R McNally Unknown Unknown Family Tree DNA 12 0
YSU38 Risley England R1b1c (tested) Family Tree DNA 12 0
DZ7XD Prins (O'Brien) Ireland R1b1* Family Tree DNA 12


Some of these surname matches are pretty strange. Goodfellow, per
MacLysaght, is used in Tryone for MacGuigan. McNally, again per MacLysaght, is an
Oriel surname (ie, Airgialla), Mac Con Uladh, or the hound of Ulster.
McCullough has the same derivation (Mac Con Uladh) but can be either Irish or
Scottish (MacCulloch). Risley is a complete unknown. The O'Brien sample says the
surname was changed to Prins and claims a "royal" descent from the O'Briens of
Munster, which is unlikely.

In summary, three of these surnames (aside from O'Neill and McShane) are
found in Tryone and adjacent Oriel (Co. Armagh was originally in Oriel).

If anyone could crack this nut you might have something.


John













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