DNA-R1B1C7-L Archives

Archiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2007-11 > 1195594890


From: "Paul Conroy" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] List activity, and possible rearch programs
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 16:41:30 -0500
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20071118224450.02428818@netvision.net.il><BAY109-DAV98789FC2BCAFD5C5B83A5D57D0@phx.gbl><002701c82a6c$5befdce0$6402a8c0@DW1>
In-Reply-To: <002701c82a6c$5befdce0$6402a8c0@DW1>


David,

That National Trust site is pretty crap - it mis-identified the surname
CONROY as being English-Norman or Norman?!

I do like the spatial output though - as I'm a cartophile!

For similar output like this for the US, try this link:
http://www.hamrick.com/names/

For "Wilson":
http://www.hamrick.com/names/names.cgi?surname=wilson&year=xxxx&type=html

Cheers,
Paul



On Nov 19, 2007 12:23 AM, David Wilson <> wrote:

> After a decent September showing (68 messages), the list traffic almost
> completely evaporated in October (five messages). Until this "still
> active?"
> discussion broke out, there had been no posts in November.
>
> That's probably because some of the conversations that we might have
> expected to see going on here have migrated to other lists where they can
> been carried on as surname or regional discussions. The DNA details of
> R1b1c7 haplotypes would probably be discussed first on the GENEALOGY-DNA
> list because that is where most of the hard core STR and SNP discussions
> go
> on.
>
> The more I see of R1b1c7 haplotypes, the more I am surprised at the extent
> to which they form a fairly regular distribution about the modal
> haplotype.
> I hoped and expected to see some regional clusters show up in the data as
> more haplotypes were established, but with the exception of the usual
> distinctions between families (and in some cases within them), major
> divisions within R1b1c7 are hard to spot. Some patterns that I thought
> might
> represent a predominantly Scottish cluster are found also in Donegal,
> outside of the Plantation area. Many Ulster haplotypes have matches both
> in
> Connaught and Scotland, which may reflect the wash of populations back and
> forth across the counties of Derry, Antrim and Tyrone in the last several
> centuries. There are a couple of haplotypes from Mayo/Roscommon that seem
> to
> have no close matches in Scotland, but that's as close to a regional
> distinction as I have yet found.
>
> I have been wondering what research projects might let us look a little
> more
> deeply into the roots of R1bc7 and family associations. Two that have
> occurred to me are a controlled surname study and a county study for both
> northern Ireland and Southern Scotland.
>
> In the former, the plan would be to rank order the 500 most common Irish
> surnames, then dismiss the first 50 or so on the grounds that their large
> populations would probably show such genetic and geographical diversity
> that
> one could not conclude much from the mix. (As one of the most common
> English-pattern surnames in Ireland, and the 25th most common surname in
> Ireland overall, my own surname Wilson would be excluded.) The plan would
> be
> to find tested individuals who represent the remaining names, then
> classify
> them as to haplogroup and County of origin. We should find ourselves with
> a
> list of surnames that show clear correlation with R1b1c7 or other
> STR-defined clusters. In an ideal outcome, the historical roots of the
> R1b1c7 surnames should be able to point us to other origins for R1b1c7
> lineages in addition to the posited early Ui Neill associations. We should
> also be able to see more clearly the geographical associations of
> particular
> surnames than we can (or at any rate, than I can) right now.
>
> Tools for this exist. The old spatial-literacy website (now relocated to
> http://www.nationaltrustnames.org.uk/default.aspx) will show major surname
> distributions in Great Britain outside of Ireland based on both the 1881
> census and a recent survey. But rarer surnames are not included. For those
> one must use the 1881 census data made available by Archer Software.
>
> For Ireland, one can make use the surname search facility at
> http://www.ireland.com/ancestor/index.cfm, but this approach is not
> designed
> for large-scale research. One must interrogate the data base one surname
> or
> surname cluster at a time, then pull the resulting population counts into
> a
> separate tabulation. The process is tedious.
>
> Unless one has the Archer package for England, Wales and Scotland, one
> will
> need to bring a rank-ordered surname list to the undertaking. Doing this
> right will probably require building a fairly large spreadsheet of
> surnames,
> counties, haplogroups and populations. Archer also provides a mapping
> program separate from the census offering that should be useful for this.
>
> There is much yet to be learned about R1b1c7. The members of this list
> have
> a role to play in that process.
>
> David Wilson
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> [mailto:] On Behalf Of R. C. Mac Donald
> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 12:50 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] Is this list still active?
>
> I was wondering the same thing.
>
> R.C. Mac Donald
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: yair<mailto:>
> To: <mailto:>
> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 3:45 PM
> Subject: [DNA-R1B1C7] Is this list still active?
>
>
>
> Is this list still active?
> Yair Davidiy
>
>
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