DNA-R1B1C7-L Archives

Archiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2007-11 > 1195496956


From: "Paul Conroy" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] List activity, and possible rearch programs
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 13:29:16 -0500
References: <002701c82a6c$5befdce0$6402a8c0@DW1><200711191758.lAJHwNJo031717@mail.rootsweb.com><9656caf80711191027k3393d825xa80eddb20a732be8@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <9656caf80711191027k3393d825xa80eddb20a732be8@mail.gmail.com>


should read:
...unrelated Scottish name...

On Nov 19, 2007 1:27 PM, Paul Conroy <> wrote:

> Marie,
>
> I would volunteer my surname also - Conroy - as I'm from County Laois,
> which is hundreds of miles from the epicenter of R1b1c7 in NW Ireland.
> Here's some info on the derivation of the surname itself:
>
> Patrick Conroy was my grandfather, born in County Laois, Ireland. Country
> Laois was formerly called: County Laoghis, County Leix and Queen's County.
> There are 3 main areas of Ireland with Conroys, they are: Galway/Mayo,
> Roscommon and Laois/Offaly. The Conroy clan in County Laois is supposed to
> have originated when a fellow by the name Conn Dunne, ran to warn the
> O'Moores that the English were invading. He was thereafter given the name
> "Conn na ratha" - Conn the runner - or Conrahy, that evolved over time into
> Conroy. I think the battle in question was the infamous "Pass of the Plumes"
> in 1599, where the Irish led by Owney MacRory O'More (Moore), chieftain of
> Leix, enjoyed a devastating victory over the English army led by the Earl of
> Essex. So this Lastname (Surname) is only 400 years old. It's also no wonder
> that my nearest match so far in this database is a user by the name of Dunne
> (# 3G5W3).
>
> The interesting thing is not that my closest match on Family Tree DNA is a
> Dunne from the Laois area (GD=1 for 25-markers) - which is what I would
> expect, rather that I have a few Dunn matches (GD=2 at 25-markers) - when I
> always though that Dunn was an unrelatedcottish name. Here is some more
> history on the Dunne/Dunn surname:
> http://www.henneberry.org/dunn/surname.htm
>
> So it would seem that this Scottish surname is derived from the Dunne's of
> Ireland, or else some Dunne emigrants from Ireland have dropped the -e maybe
> when they assimilated in Scotland or England?
>
> In either case a lot of the debate on this forum has surrounded tracing
> the Northern O'Neill and descendants in Scotland or refuting that - when I
> descend from the Southern O'Neill, and its possible that they too have
> descendants in Scotland?!
>
> Regards,
> Paul
>
>
>
> On Nov 19, 2007 1:29 PM, Marie Kerr < > wrote:
>
> > I like your idea of the controlled surname study, and as one of the more
> >
> > unusual names, mine would seem to be an interesting one. As I mentioned
> > in a
> > previous email, the Golden name has been anglicized from the Gaelic Mac
> > Ualghairg. My family is from Killala Bay, County Mayo which borders Co.
> >
> > Sligo. My father has been tested to the 67th level and we have records
> > going
> > back at least 4 generations. His parents came to the US in 1912 and
> > 1913.
> >
> > My lack of scientific training, however...
> >
> > Marie Golden Kerr
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:
> > [mailto: ] On Behalf Of David Wilson
> > Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 12:24 AM
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] List activity, and possible rearch programs
> >
> > After a decent September showing (68 messages), the list traffic almost
> > completely evaporated in October (five messages). Until this "still
> > active?"
> > discussion broke out, there had been no posts in November.
> >
> > That's probably because some of the conversations that we might have
> > expected to see going on here have migrated to other lists where they
> > can
> > been carried on as surname or regional discussions. The DNA details of
> > R1b1c7 haplotypes would probably be discussed first on the GENEALOGY-DNA
> > list because that is where most of the hard core STR and SNP discussions
> > go
> > on.
> >
> > The more I see of R1b1c7 haplotypes, the more I am surprised at the
> > extent
> > to which they form a fairly regular distribution about the modal
> > haplotype.
> > I hoped and expected to see some regional clusters show up in the data
> > as
> > more haplotypes were established, but with the exception of the usual
> > distinctions between families (and in some cases within them), major
> > divisions within R1b1c7 are hard to spot. Some patterns that I thought
> > might
> > represent a predominantly Scottish cluster are found also in Donegal,
> > outside of the Plantation area. Many Ulster haplotypes have matches both
> > in
> > Connaught and Scotland, which may reflect the wash of populations back
> > and
> > forth across the counties of Derry, Antrim and Tyrone in the last
> > several
> > centuries. There are a couple of haplotypes from Mayo/Roscommon that
> > seem to
> > have no close matches in Scotland, but that's as close to a regional
> > distinction as I have yet found.
> >
> > I have been wondering what research projects might let us look a little
> > more
> > deeply into the roots of R1bc7 and family associations. Two that have
> > occurred to me are a controlled surname study and a county study for
> > both
> > northern Ireland and Southern Scotland.
> >
> > In the former, the plan would be to rank order the 500 most common Irish
> > surnames, then dismiss the first 50 or so on the grounds that their
> > large
> > populations would probably show such genetic and geographical diversity
> > that
> > one could not conclude much from the mix. (As one of the most common
> > English-pattern surnames in Ireland, and the 25th most common surname in
> > Ireland overall, my own surname Wilson would be excluded.) The plan
> > would be
> > to find tested individuals who represent the remaining names, then
> > classify
> > them as to haplogroup and County of origin. We should find ourselves
> > with a
> > list of surnames that show clear correlation with R1b1c7 or other
> > STR-defined clusters. In an ideal outcome, the historical roots of the
> > R1b1c7 surnames should be able to point us to other origins for R1b1c7
> > lineages in addition to the posited early Ui Neill associations. We
> > should
> > also be able to see more clearly the geographical associations of
> > particular
> > surnames than we can (or at any rate, than I can) right now.
> >
> > Tools for this exist. The old spatial-literacy website (now relocated to
> >
> > http://www.nationaltrustnames.org.uk/default.aspx) will show major
> > surname
> > distributions in Great Britain outside of Ireland based on both the 1881
> >
> > census and a recent survey. But rarer surnames are not included. For
> > those
> > one must use the 1881 census data made available by Archer Software.
> >
> > For Ireland, one can make use the surname search facility at
> > http://www.ireland.com/ancestor/index.cfm, but this approach is not
> > designed
> > for large-scale research. One must interrogate the data base one surname
> > or
> > surname cluster at a time, then pull the resulting population counts
> > into a
> > separate tabulation. The process is tedious.
> >
> > Unless one has the Archer package for England, Wales and Scotland, one
> > will
> > need to bring a rank-ordered surname list to the undertaking. Doing this
> >
> > right will probably require building a fairly large spreadsheet of
> > surnames,
> > counties, haplogroups and populations. Archer also provides a mapping
> > program separate from the census offering that should be useful for
> > this.
> >
> > There is much yet to be learned about R1b1c7. The members of this list
> > have
> > a role to play in that process.
> >
> > David Wilson
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:
> > [mailto:] On Behalf Of R. C. Mac Donald
> > Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 12:50 PM
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] Is this list still active?
> >
> > I was wondering the same thing.
> >
> > R.C. Mac Donald
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: yair<mailto: >
> > To: <mailto: >
> > Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 3:45 PM
> > Subject: [DNA-R1B1C7] Is this list still active?
> >
> >
> >
> > Is this list still active?
> > Yair Davidiy
> >
> >
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