DNA-R1B1C7-L Archives

Archiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2007-11 > 1195496845


From: "Paul Conroy" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] List activity, and possible rearch programs
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 13:27:25 -0500
References: <002701c82a6c$5befdce0$6402a8c0@DW1><200711191758.lAJHwNJo031717@mail.rootsweb.com>
In-Reply-To: <200711191758.lAJHwNJo031717@mail.rootsweb.com>


Marie,

I would volunteer my surname also - Conroy - as I'm from County Laois, which
is hundreds of miles from the epicenter of R1b1c7 in NW Ireland. Here's some
info on the derivation of the surname itself:

Patrick Conroy was my grandfather, born in County Laois, Ireland. Country
Laois was formerly called: County Laoghis, County Leix and Queen's County.
There are 3 main areas of Ireland with Conroys, they are: Galway/Mayo,
Roscommon and Laois/Offaly. The Conroy clan in County Laois is supposed to
have originated when a fellow by the name Conn Dunne, ran to warn the
O'Moores that the English were invading. He was thereafter given the name
"Conn na ratha" - Conn the runner - or Conrahy, that evolved over time into
Conroy. I think the battle in question was the infamous "Pass of the Plumes"
in 1599, where the Irish led by Owney MacRory O'More (Moore), chieftain of
Leix, enjoyed a devastating victory over the English army led by the Earl of
Essex. So this Lastname (Surname) is only 400 years old. It's also no wonder
that my nearest match so far in this database is a user by the name of Dunne
(# 3G5W3).

The interesting thing is not that my closest match on Family Tree DNA is a
Dunne from the Laois area (GD=1 for 25-markers) - which is what I would
expect, rather that I have a few Dunn matches (GD=2 at 25-markers) - when I
always though that Dunn was an unrelatedcottish name. Here is some more
history on the Dunne/Dunn surname:
http://www.henneberry.org/dunn/surname.htm

So it would seem that this Scottish surname is derived from the Dunne's of
Ireland, or else some Dunne emigrants from Ireland have dropped the -e maybe
when they assimilated in Scotland or England?

In either case a lot of the debate on this forum has surrounded tracing the
Northern O'Neill and descendants in Scotland or refuting that - when I
descend from the Southern O'Neill, and its possible that they too have
descendants in Scotland?!

Regards,
Paul



On Nov 19, 2007 1:29 PM, Marie Kerr < > wrote:

> I like your idea of the controlled surname study, and as one of the more
> unusual names, mine would seem to be an interesting one. As I mentioned in
> a
> previous email, the Golden name has been anglicized from the Gaelic Mac
> Ualghairg. My family is from Killala Bay, County Mayo which borders Co.
> Sligo. My father has been tested to the 67th level and we have records
> going
> back at least 4 generations. His parents came to the US in 1912 and 1913.
>
> My lack of scientific training, however...
>
> Marie Golden Kerr
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> [mailto: ] On Behalf Of David Wilson
> Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 12:24 AM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] List activity, and possible rearch programs
>
> After a decent September showing (68 messages), the list traffic almost
> completely evaporated in October (five messages). Until this "still
> active?"
> discussion broke out, there had been no posts in November.
>
> That's probably because some of the conversations that we might have
> expected to see going on here have migrated to other lists where they can
> been carried on as surname or regional discussions. The DNA details of
> R1b1c7 haplotypes would probably be discussed first on the GENEALOGY-DNA
> list because that is where most of the hard core STR and SNP discussions
> go
> on.
>
> The more I see of R1b1c7 haplotypes, the more I am surprised at the extent
> to which they form a fairly regular distribution about the modal
> haplotype.
> I hoped and expected to see some regional clusters show up in the data as
> more haplotypes were established, but with the exception of the usual
> distinctions between families (and in some cases within them), major
> divisions within R1b1c7 are hard to spot. Some patterns that I thought
> might
> represent a predominantly Scottish cluster are found also in Donegal,
> outside of the Plantation area. Many Ulster haplotypes have matches both
> in
> Connaught and Scotland, which may reflect the wash of populations back and
>
> forth across the counties of Derry, Antrim and Tyrone in the last several
> centuries. There are a couple of haplotypes from Mayo/Roscommon that seem
> to
> have no close matches in Scotland, but that's as close to a regional
> distinction as I have yet found.
>
> I have been wondering what research projects might let us look a little
> more
> deeply into the roots of R1bc7 and family associations. Two that have
> occurred to me are a controlled surname study and a county study for both
> northern Ireland and Southern Scotland.
>
> In the former, the plan would be to rank order the 500 most common Irish
> surnames, then dismiss the first 50 or so on the grounds that their large
> populations would probably show such genetic and geographical diversity
> that
> one could not conclude much from the mix. (As one of the most common
> English-pattern surnames in Ireland, and the 25th most common surname in
> Ireland overall, my own surname Wilson would be excluded.) The plan would
> be
> to find tested individuals who represent the remaining names, then
> classify
> them as to haplogroup and County of origin. We should find ourselves with
> a
> list of surnames that show clear correlation with R1b1c7 or other
> STR-defined clusters. In an ideal outcome, the historical roots of the
> R1b1c7 surnames should be able to point us to other origins for R1b1c7
> lineages in addition to the posited early Ui Neill associations. We should
>
> also be able to see more clearly the geographical associations of
> particular
> surnames than we can (or at any rate, than I can) right now.
>
> Tools for this exist. The old spatial-literacy website (now relocated to
> http://www.nationaltrustnames.org.uk/default.aspx) will show major surname
> distributions in Great Britain outside of Ireland based on both the 1881
> census and a recent survey. But rarer surnames are not included. For those
> one must use the 1881 census data made available by Archer Software.
>
> For Ireland, one can make use the surname search facility at
> http://www.ireland.com/ancestor/index.cfm, but this approach is not
> designed
> for large-scale research. One must interrogate the data base one surname
> or
> surname cluster at a time, then pull the resulting population counts into
> a
> separate tabulation. The process is tedious.
>
> Unless one has the Archer package for England, Wales and Scotland, one
> will
> need to bring a rank-ordered surname list to the undertaking. Doing this
> right will probably require building a fairly large spreadsheet of
> surnames,
> counties, haplogroups and populations. Archer also provides a mapping
> program separate from the census offering that should be useful for this.
>
> There is much yet to be learned about R1b1c7. The members of this list
> have
> a role to play in that process.
>
> David Wilson
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> [mailto:] On Behalf Of R. C. Mac Donald
> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 12:50 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] Is this list still active?
>
> I was wondering the same thing.
>
> R.C. Mac Donald
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: yair<mailto: >
> To: <mailto:>
> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 3:45 PM
> Subject: [DNA-R1B1C7] Is this list still active?
>
>
>
> Is this list still active?
> Yair Davidiy
>
>
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