DNA-R1B1C7-L Archives

Archiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2007-09 > 1189338578


From: "J. David Grierson" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] R1b1c7 in Scotland
Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2007 21:49:38 +1000
References: <d06.17da61c0.33fb6d76@aol.com>
In-Reply-To: <d06.17da61c0.33fb6d76@aol.com>


Alan,
I'm not sure we can take this line of speculation very far with three
haplogroups/clades showing. For instance, that single R1b might be the
Scots line. Also, are they genuine haplogroups, or just the rough
estimates of the FTDNA computer? As an example, nearly half of the
Greers tested, or estimated, are said to be Scandinavian, and they have
similar haplotypes, suggesting an incursion (probably in Ireland) by a
Viking family, with a bit of friendly rape and pillage. But that doesn't
make the Laird of Lag or his nominal ancestor Duncan Greresone a Viking.
Why they became "Greer" is yet to be explained otherwise, the Irish
being much more specific about surnames than the Scots, it seems. I'd
stick with R1b(....) for the Lords of Nithsdale for the moment.
Regards
David Grierson in Melbourne

wrote:

>
>Hi David/Ian
>
>Thought you guys might be interested in this piece of information. As you
>probably know the Edgar family of Dumfriesshire and Galloway claim to be
>directly descended from Edgar son of Dovenald, lord of Nithsdale. I have been on
>the look out for some DNA samples either with reference to Scotland or the
>North of Ireland. A number of the family settled in Co. Down in the North of
>Ireland. I was surprised to find four new DNA results on Ysearch, three of them
>come from Co. Down and one unknown. They are:
>
>DK3DB = I1a
>KB4J2 = I1a
>V5DKB = I1b
>SSVVH = R1b
>
>I understand I1a and I1b show a strong orientation towards Scandinavian
>countries? If this results reflect the Edgar haplotype, this might throw some
>interesting light on the origins of the Edgars and question the origins of the
>lords of Nithsdale.
>
>Alan
>
>
>
>In a message dated 30/07/2007 04:00:58 GMT Standard Time,
> writes:
>
>Alan,
>Ah, evidence! I surmise that your "evidence" is not what may generally
>be found on the web. My deduction is based on the absence of evidence
>rather than the existence of evidence. What I was alluding to was the
>
>"Duncan son of Gilbert, earl of Carrick" that I mentioned in my earlier
>post, and the questions I asked about Carrick and the Galloway relationship. I
>guess I was in highly speculative mode, and was also keeping in mind the
>suggestion raised in much earlier discussions between us which developed from the
>Truckell suggestion that the Griersons were related to the lordship of
>Galloway.
>
>My line of thought was (given the Truckell idea):
>Gilbert (died 1185) was Lord of Galloway .
>His son, Duncan, (1st earl of Carrick, died 1250) was witness to the Charter
>of *[25] Edgar son of Dovenald *of AD1202-1206
>
>Now if this Duncan had a son Gilbert (I thought), we would have a nice
>progression. However (and this is what I meant by my post), there is no "evidence"
>that I can find which connects our Gilbert (Greresone) to the earldom of
>Carrick. All we can say is that both Duncan and Gilbert were popular choices for
>names in this branch of the Galloway family (which I see the Kennedys claim
>for theirs), and presumably the names would also be popular among the local
>landed families.
>According to the author of the Wikipedia article on the earldom of Carrick,
>Duncan had at least 5 sons: Niall, Cailean, Eoin, Ailean, Alasdair.
>
>No sign of a Gilbert, although the name re-appeared in the next
>generations according to:
>http://www.baronage.co.uk/bphtm-03/bruce-01.html but they all are shown
>as "de Carrick".
>
>So I'm afraid that this line of thought has collapsed.
>Regards
>David Grierson
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>
>
>

This thread: