DNA-R1B1C7-L ArchivesArchiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2007-08 > 1188311416
From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] New map
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 08:30:16 -0600
A look at Ysearch indicates there is a small cluster of surnames with 455 =
12 variation on the NW Irish R1b1c7. More than one surname gives Mayo
County as place of origin.
One can infer a common male ancestor for these several surname lines which
include the Manley line you mention.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marianne Granoff" <>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 8:06 AM
Subject: [DNA-R1B1C7] New map
> Thank you for putting up the new map. I wondered about the original map
> since there are many with roots from NW County Mayo that have the R1b1c7
> haplotype. Most are from close to the northern coast of County Mayo as
> new map indicates.
> I have another question I am curious about. My brother (74163) has a
> of 12 for marker 455. This seems unusual for this group. Everything I
> tried to find indicates that 455 is not one of the faster-mutating
> If I look at the Manley (Munnelly/Monneley/Munley) surname on Ysearch -
> the Manleys from NW Ireland (County Mayo) who have had the 37-marker or
> better test show this same result for marker 455.
> Can I infer anything about this - other than some possible distant common
> relation? If so - what?
> Marianne Manley Granoff
> Albuquerque, NM
> At 05:58 AM 8/28/2007 -0700, you wrote:
>>Yes, any subclade would by definition be younger than the parent clade.
>>of the goals of the R1b1c7 Project is to determine subgroups. In my
>>strongest dreams I hope that we will be able to make regional distinctions
>>-- find a set of values associated with Ireland, another with Scotland,
>>so forth. That hasn't happened yet, and that's why I'm on a push to get at
>>least 500 members in the project. The more data, the greater likelihood we
>>will see signals in the complete data set.
>>By the way, I just posted a slightly modified map on the web site at
>>www.ftdna.com/public/R1b1c7 The first version understated the western
>>of the range of R1b1c7. I know two or three people printed out the other
>>version for their notes. You all may wish to print the page again to have
>>the more accurate version. Apologies for putting the wrong one up in the
>>Yesterday I reviewed the Capelli data for the first time in a long time,
>>I became uneasy all over again about the distribution of R1b1c7 in
>>Capelli typed only six markers, but if we use 392=14 as a discriminator
>>omit the Haplogroup N and Haplogroup Q individuals, we should have a
>>good picture of where he found R1b1c7.
>>Using 392=14 as a determinant in Capelli's data indicates a stronger
>>presence of R1b1c7 in western and northern Scotland than seems to be shown
>>in the data from individuals tested by FTDNA. Now Capelli picked test
>>subjects from a grid, and FTDNA's test subjects are self selected, which
>>opens up questions of sampling bias. I trust Capelli's sampling approach,
>>but wish he had more extensive haplotypes. It may be that the footprint of
>>R1b1c7 is larger in Scotland than it is in Ireland. If so, that may say
>>something about the origins of R1b1c7, or it may not. A haplotype
>>study would be informative, because less diversity is associated with
>>I will post links to the Capelli article and a spreadsheet of the Capelli
>>data later today for those who want to look at them.
>>[mailto:] On Behalf Of
>>Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 4:57 AM
>>Subject: [DNA-R1B1C7] Subclades?
>>I am impressed with the new Project website. While I was looking at the
>>new map, I started to think about the recent message about subclades. I
>>aware that the subclades of R1b1c7 have not been found, but I have
>>questions about the possible subclades. Are the subclades suppose to be
>>younger than R1b1c7? Is it possible that R1b1c7 originated in N.W.
>>Ireland? Is it possible that some of the subclades originated in
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