DNA-R1B1C7-L Archives

From: "Paul Conroy" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] Lochlan" was Norse "Rogaland
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:10:22 -0400
References: <c12.1c828d21.33f507eb@aol.com>
In-Reply-To: <c12.1c828d21.33f507eb@aol.com>

John,

If I remember correctly the Norse were said to "go a viking" - meaning that
in it's original context, the word Viking didn't refer to an ethnic group or
nation, but to seasonal raiding by sea, and only much later, a year round
occupation. So that Viking originally meant much the same as the word
Pirate. Might it be that some Gaelic Hebrideans, either under the nominal
influence of some Norse settlers in their midst or envious of the spoils of
battle accumulated by them, decided to join these Norse, either willingly or
by force, and go a viking too?? To the Irish monks and others writing about
them, it probably didn't matter too much what their exact ethnic origin was.

On a related note, I've read about the Jomsborg Vikings -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jomsborg_vikings - that they may have been
largely ethnically Slavic, with Norse leadership.

The other thing to remember is that Irish chieftains were also engaged in
much the same seasonal raiding - with the exception that it wasn't by sea,
and they were Gael (natives), rather than Gall (foreigners). In fact
throughout the Viking era, there were more raids on Irish monastic
settlements by Irish chieftains than by Vikings - a point that often goes
unmentioned by historians.

Cheers,
Paul


On 8/15/07, <> wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 8/15/2007 11:16:21 A.M. Central Standard Time,
> writes:
>
> In Irish Gaelic, "Lochlan" referred to someone of Viking or Viking/Gael
> descent, and has yielded the names Lochlan, McLochlan, Lachlan, McLachlan
> Loughlan, McLoughlan, Loughlin, McLoughlin, and others. I've read
> somewhere
> that the term was originally applied to mixed Viking/Gaels from the
> Hebridies. Later many of these mixed Hebridian tribes would become
> Gallowglass - mercenaries - to Irish chieftains in Ireland - families
> such
> as Sweeney, McCabe and others.
>
>
>
> So far in the McLaughin Surname Project of about 50 participants we have
> exactly 3 non R1b members, and these are all I haplogroups of various
> flavors, 2
> of 3 are old I1c. . In our McLaughlin of Donegal group, the earliest to
> assume this surname in northern Ireland (1023 AD.), all are R1b. The
> O'Loughlins of Burren in Co. Clare appear to have had an ancestor named
> Lochlan at
> least a generation earlier than the northern bunch (Annals of Ulster).
> Since the
> Scottish pedigrees are untrustworthy, no one really knows when
> the Lochlan
> ancestor of the Scottish Maclachlans lived.
>
> O Corrain, in his article on the meaning of Lochlan, a term later used
> by
> the Irish annalists for Norway, parted company with Marstrander and
> earlier
> theorists and believed the term simply referred to the Hebrides and the
> Vikings settled in the western Isles.
>
> In the Clan McLaughlin Society we've long wondered if the adoption of
> Lochlan as a personal name implied if nothing else intermarrige with
> the Vikings.
> But nothing in the DNA seems to suggest a male Viking origin for the clan
> as a whole (unless some Vikings were R1b1c7). The intermarriage theory
> might
> still hold true - at least one McLaughlin High KIng of Ireland (or his
> son)
> had a daughter who is named a wife of the Norse King of Mann in the
> Annals of
> Mann.
>
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>
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