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Archiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2007-08 > 1187047266
From:
Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] R1b1c7 in Scotland
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 19:21:06 EDT
In a message dated 8/13/2007 5:22:23 P.M. Central Standard Time,
writes:
In general terms, some of the Milliken/Milligan results are fairly close to
the O'Doherty modal, what is unclear, is at what point they branch off from
the TMRCA. If there are older lines in Ireland and Scotland that predate
the
Ui Neill modal, I think we need to show where the older ones turn up. So,
lets
suppose we are truly dealing with a haplotype which is much older than say
AD 400, and it reaches beyond NW Ireland, where does it reach in Scotland or
at
least in medieval Scotland? NW Ireland has an advantage.
Alan, those are the $10.000 questions for R1b1c7 and have been discussed
recently on this list (or at least the methods have been discussed). So far no
answers have been forthcoming. I don't have the expertise to do it either.
I just dabble a little.
I was just looking at a subset of your Millikan DNA samples because so many
have missing markers. I ignored some of the samples because of this - you
can't run genetic distance comparisons that mean anything with so many missing
markers. But in general I see a division between those with 389-2 = 30 and
those with 29. For the ones with 30 DYS 449 is actually modal at 31 instead
of 30. Despite your missing data it appears the 29 group might be modal at
DYS 458 at 17. To me it looks like it could be two different septs.
You have a few with DYS 458 = 18, a value also appearing in both Dohertys
and McLaughlins. But 19-23 is just R1b1c7 modal at YCAIIab.
An 18 at DYS 458 does seem to narrow the list of R1b1c7 down quite a bit.
An exact match at the first 12 NW Irish markers plus 458 = 18 results in 68
matches; as opposed to 507 matches with just the first 12 alone. But if you
allow a GD of 1 then the matches are increased significantly. How much I'm
not sure. It's hard to get an accurate count. You might play around with
that some yourself.
Since the differences in your MIllikans aren't really all that great
perhaps you are dealing with one related sept. The Dohertys show quite a bit of
diversity as well.
John
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