DNA-R1B1C7-L Archives

From:
Subject: [DNA-R1B1C7] For What it's Worth
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 01:02:55 EDT

Just for fun I took a look at the supplementary data file on the Trinity web
site that contained the Ui Neill data samples mentioned in their article (Ui
Neill n = 59).

Of these, 34 samples match their IMH modal (NW Irish) at no more than a GD
of 2 at 17 markers. Another 22 are clearly not R1b1c7 with one debatable
sample. Two others are R1a and I haplogroup.

I prepared Fluxus charts with the McGee utility and ran a Time estimate,
using Trinity's published figures of 1 mutation every 2131 generations and the
Ui Neill samples (n=34)

Results

2009 (SD 629)

TMRCA 2 BC

or 627 AD to 631 BC

This doesn't match the Trinity TMRCA of 1730 years (277 AD) so I don't know
exactly what they did. They talked in their article about using only 1 step
derivatives in their article so I eliminated the 2 GD Ui Neill and confined
the data set to exact matches to their IMH modal plus 1 step derivatives (n =
26).

1 step derivatives

1262 years (SD 523)

TMRCA 745 AD.

or 1268 AD to 222 AD


As David Ewing has been saying, this wide range of possible values and
probabilities doesn't leave me very confident of any of these dates. I was more
interested in the fact that 25 of 59 samples drawn from Ui Neill surnames were
not R1b1c7 in the Trinity database. Unfortunately the samples in the
spreadsheet are anonymous without even an identifying surname.

I assume the surnames in the database are the same as those published in
their article.

(O')Gallagher (12), (O')Boyle (9), (O')Doherty (5), O'Donnell (4), O'Connor
(3), Cannon (3), Bradley (2), O'Reilly (2), Flynn (2), (Mc)Kee (2), Campbell
(1), Devlin (1), Donnelly (1), Egan (1), Gormley (1), Hynes (1), McCaul
(1), McGovern (1), McLoughlin (1), McManus (1), McMenamin (1), Molloy (1),
O'Kane (1), O'Rourke (1), and Quinn (1).

This pretty much fits in with other statements by the Trinity team though
to the effect that every major surname group they studied showed signs of male
introgression/and/or multiple origins (Y-chromosomes and the extent of
patrilineal ancestry in Irish surnames, McEvoy et al).


John








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