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Archiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2007-08 > 1186882554


From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] Network.exe
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 19:35:54 -0600
References: <d45.10255517.33efb741@aol.com>


I can only mention the rules I use myself. I first eliminate multi-copy
markers subject to recLOH events. Then I decide on a number N of the
slowest markers from some larger set. Then I take someone's individual
rates, like Chandler's rates, and use them and my pre-determined N to
establish my set of markers used.

You say you are grasping for a method which yields meaningful results? That
seems problematic to me. That suggests a pre-determined idea of what
meaningful results will be. I think developing confidence in some
methodology is more important. Then the results, whatever they may be, are
meaningful because they come from a methodology with foundations.

My prejudice is to develop a methodology with genetic data which speaks for
itself and is not dependent on input from other fields.

For all I know, some clans could have an early, prolific founder being some
urchin adopted into the clan after he was stolen from the next valley, and
then the kid grew up with street smarts and became the strong man clan
leader? Most any large clan will have a large number of isolated ydna
lines. Sorting out which, if any, of those lines represents some early
quasi-historic person or family in the clan is a major challenge.

Even with the Hamilton ydna lines, which as mentioned in quasi-history only
go back less than 1000 years, it has taken some doing to match one of those
lines with the founding Hamilton, and in this case there is a purported
unbroken genealogy to the present floating around.

The confidence intervals with TMRCA estimates are killers. They should make
one humble in any interpretations.

I don't understand why finding a common ancestor between A and B well before
the Nial fellow should pose a problem? The clade that A, B, and Nial are
all in probably had its founding way before the purported era of Nial.

Just my thoughts on a windy evening in MT. Tonight I shall endeavor to get
up around midnight and look for the meteor showers, clouds cooperating?

Ken


----- Original Message -----
From: <>
To: <>
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 7:07 PM
Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] Network.exe


>
> In a message dated 8/11/2007 7:51:47 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> writes:
>
> If you fish long enough for the "right" set of markers you will get the
> results you want. It is important to try to use a "hands off" set of
> markers.
>
>
>
> Can you suggest a "hands off" set of markers to use? Or mutation rates
> or
> methodology?
>
> I don't really think any of us "want" a given set of results. The
> markers
> and mutation rates I'm playing with right now place the common ancestor
> of
> McLaughlin and Doherty long before the time of Nial, in the early
> centuries B.C.
> That doesn't bother me a bit although if true it would upset a major
> foundation stone of Irish history. But I think we amateurs are grasping
> in the
> dark for some method that yields meaningful results. Any suggestions on
> how to
> proceed would be welcomed.
>
>
> John
>
>
>
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