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From:
Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] R1b1c7 in Scotland
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 21:13:47 EDT
In a message dated 8/8/2007 1:01:04 P.M. Central Standard Time,
writes:
John,
Remember that the putative progenitor of the Ui Neill lineage, Niall,
was given the title, "of the Nine hostages" for a reason - he had
according to legend, founded nine colonies among other peoples, and
had taken hostages from them to secure them.
The nine peoples were:
1. Munster
2. Leinster
3. Connaught
4. Ulster
5. the Britons
6. the Picts
7. the Dal Riada
8. the Saxons
9. the Morini of Gaul
Here's O'Rahilly's take on the nine hostages:
"Niall admittedly got his epithet Noigiallach from the nine hostages (noi
ngeill) he had secured. These are said to have consisted of five hostages
from Ireland (one from each province) and four from Britain. Alternatively, the
four foreign hostages are said to have been: one from Britain or Scotland
(Alba), one from the Saxons, one from the Britons (Welsh) and one from the
Franks. We may safely leave the foreign hostages out of account, as a later
embellishment, and take it that Niall's nine hostages were irishmen. We have
seen that in internal affairs the great achievement of Niall's reign was the
conquest of Ulster and the establishment of a group of states collectively
known as the Airgialla, a name which is closely related to the -giall- of
Niall's epithet. When we read in the Book of Rights that the only claim that the
King of Ireland had on the Airgialla was that they should deliver 'nine
hostages' (nae ngeill) into his custody, it is hardly impossible to doubt that
Niall's epithet has reference to these nine hostages of the Airgialla."
Elsewhere in the same chapter O'Rahilly equates the name Airgialla with
"hostage-givers," an interpretation accepted by most historians.
There is also some basis for the claims to dominance over the Britons, in
that beginning with Nial's father, Eochaidh Mughmedoin, whose epithet means
"lord of slaves," Irish tradition credits this line with raids on post-Roman
Britain. Eochaid's wife, Cairenn, mother of Nial, was supposedly captured on
one such raid by Eochaidh. The legends of Nathi, on the other hand, were
pure fiction modeled after the legends of Nial himself conducting similar raids
on Britain. In the earliest versions of the Nial legends, Nial is said to
have been slain on one such raid in Britain at Muir nIcht (or Muir Icht), i.e.,
the Irish channel. O'Rahilly believes that the later legends of raids into
Gaul (death of Niall) or Nathi, son of Fiachrach (slain by lightening at the
Alps), simply reflect the historical fact that the Irish raiders encountered
either Romans or Romanized Britons on their raids across the Irish sea. When
the legends were being written much later the Irish scribes had lost any
memory of Britain as a Roman country. So they imagined that the Irish raiders
must have pushed into Gaul as far as the Swiss Alps (and even into Italy in
some legends) where they supposed they might have encountered Romans.
There's an interesting twist to the "killed by lightening" aspect of the
legends as well.
Niall was said to have been slain by Eochu (or Eochaidh), son of Enna
Censelach, at the English channell (Muir nIcht). This is a reference to the
longstanding enmity between the Ui Neill and Lagin in Ireland. O'Rahilly links
this name (Eochu), to the mythological personage of the same name, ie., the
sun god, who was also the god of lightening. Thus Eochus's spear or arrow
which killed Nial would have been a lightening strike in the original form of
the legend, a tale simply repeated in the legends of Nathi son of Fiachra.
Since we're talking about Nial we might as well also demolish another
common legend; that Niall himself kidnapped St. Patrick on one of his raids on
Britain. This is nothing but simple conjecture based on the fact that Nial (d.
405) was known to have made raids in Britain at about the time St. Patrick
would have been born. Bury (Life of St. Patrick, pp. 331, 334) conjectures
that Patrick was taken captive in the very raid in which Nial was slain (and
therefore was born in 389). It might even be conceivable since the Life of
Patrick is full of encounters between the sons of Nial and the saint, which at
least make them contemporaries. The conjecture probably originated (as did
many worthless Irish legends) with Keating's History of Ireland (FFii, 400-401)
which associates the taking captive of Patrick with Nial's raids in Britain.
Here's the text from Keating's History:
"Niall marched after this with his full host from Alba to Laegria, and made
an encampment there; and he sent a fleet to Brittany in France, which is
called Armorica, for the purpose of plundering that country; and they brought two
hundred noble youths as captives to Ireland with them; and it was in this
captivity that they brought Patrick, who was sixteen years old, with them, and
his two sisters Lupida and Darerca and many other captives besides."
So St. Patrick was captured on a raid in Armorica in Gaul, eh?
Here's what the Catholic Encyclopedia has to say:
"Apostle of _Ireland_ (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08098b.htm) , born at
Kilpatrick, near Dumbarton, in _Scotland_
(http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13613a.htm) , in the year 387; died at Saul, Downpatrick, _Ireland_
(http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08098b.htm) , 17 March, 493. [Some sources say 460 or
461. --Ed.]
He had for his _parents_ (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11478c.htm)
Calphurnius and Conchessa. The former belonged to a Roman _family_
(http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05782a.htm) of high rank and held the office of decurio in
_Gaul_ (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06395b.htm) or Britain. Conchessa
was a near relative of the great patron of _Gaul_
(http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06395b.htm) , _St. Martin of Tours_
(http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09732b.htm) . Kilpatrick still retains many memorials of Saint Patrick, and
frequent _pilgrimages_ (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12085a.htm) continued far
into the _Middle Ages_ (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10285c.htm) to
perpetuate there the fame of his _sanctity_
(http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13428b.htm) and _miracles_ (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10338a.htm) .
In his sixteenth year, Patrick was carried off into captivity by _Irish_
(http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08098b.htm) marauders and was sold as a _slave_
(http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14036a.htm) to a chieftan named Milchu in
Dalriada, a territory of the present county of Antrim in _Ireland_
(http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08098b.htm) , where for six years he tended his
master's flocks in the valley of the Braid and on the slopes of Slemish, near the
modern town of Ballymena. He relates in his "Confessio" that during his
captivity while tending the flocks he _prayed_
(http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12345b.htm) many times in the day: "the _love_
(http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09397a.htm) of _God_ (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06608a.htm) ", he
added....
It should be obvious from the above that no one really knows which Irish
chieftain captured St. Patrick on a raid to Britain or Alba.
John
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