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Archiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2007-08 > 1186596016


From: "Paul Conroy" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] R1b1c7 in Scotland
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 14:00:16 -0400
References: <cad.171f70ab.33ea61e3@aol.com>
In-Reply-To: <cad.171f70ab.33ea61e3@aol.com>


John,

Remember that the putative progenitor of the Ui Neill lineage, Niall,
was given the title, "of the Nine hostages" for a reason - he had
according to legend, founded nine colonies among other peoples, and
had taken hostages from them to secure them.

The nine peoples were:
1. Munster
2. Leinster
3. Connaught
4. Ulster
5. the Britons
6. the Picts
7. the Dal Riada
8. the Saxons
9. the Morini of Gaul

Niall himself died while waging war in Gaul - modern France - after all.

Therefore is it any wonder that R1b1c7 is found in Northern Britain and
England, and a smattering on the continent too. Not to mention that fact of
the "Wild Geese" - tens of thousands of Irish men who went to the continent
to fight in the armies of France, Spain, Austria and later Russia. Many of
these Wild Geese were from the Ulster and North Leinster areas.

Cheers,
Paul

On 8/7/07, <> wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 8/7/2007 11:32:58 A.M. Central Standard Time,
> writes:
>
> John,
>
> The problem with this argument is that it completely fails to account for
> the fact that M222 or R1b1c7 has a time to most recent common ancestor
> TMRCA
> of 1,730 years ago (SD 670), so less than 2,000 years ago - so how do you
> account for the fact that 2 countries have this same haplogroup AND many
> of
> the the same haplotypes too?? The only way for this to happen is for one
> founding population to be spread over 2 countries.
>
>
>
> I don't really have a scenario. I just doubt that the
> legendary migration
> from Antrim to Dal Riata in Scotland had anything to do with the presence
> of
> R1b1c7 in Scotland. But R1b1c7 isn't just confined to Ireland and
> Scotland.
> We also see it in England, especially in the northern
> border regions. And it
> appears as strong in eastern, lowland parts of Scotland as it does in
> western Scotland. There are even few debatable R1b1c7 samples from the
> continent.
>
> The experts say R1b1c7 originated in Ireland. Maybe it did. But if so
> then I think it found it's way to England and Scotland long before the
> supposed
> founding date of the Scottish Dal Riata.
>
>
> John
>
> John
>
>
>
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