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From:
Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] R1b1c7 in Scotland
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 10:21:30 EDT



David, I missed the email in which you first referred to Duncan son of
Gilbert. I would say, your suggestion is a long shot, but I wouldn't rule it out.
Both the Lords of Nithsdale and Carrick may turn out to be related anyway. I
discussed with Alfred Truckell the question about the relationship between the
Lords of Dunegal and Galloway, and he seemed to think there was a
connection. Exactly what that relationship was is still unclear. There are many
unanswered questions. For example, it has also be asserted the Lords of Nithsdale
descended from the last prince of Strathclyde, Owen the Bald. Donald Edgar,
appointed captain of the Clan McGowan c.1343-4, is thought to have descended
from Edgar son of Dovenald. Clan McGowan is sometime equated with McOwen. The
claim that Kennedys descend from Duncan son of Gilbert on the male line isn't
universally accepted. There is strong evidence suggest they married into the
family, a case which Hector MacQueen has shown. Unlike the Kennedys, the
early history of the Griersons is closed linked to Nithsdale, and is close tied
into the old barony of Tibbers. I would think this is the starting point to
work back. It will be interesting to see what the search throws up. Alan



In a message dated 30/07/2007 04:00:58 GMT Standard Time,
writes:

Alan,
Ah, evidence! I surmise that your "evidence" is not what may generally
be found on the web. My deduction is based on the absence of evidence
rather than the existence of evidence. What I was alluding to was the

"Duncan son of Gilbert, earl of Carrick" that I mentioned in my earlier
post, and the questions I asked about Carrick and the Galloway relationship. I
guess I was in highly speculative mode, and was also keeping in mind the
suggestion raised in much earlier discussions between us which developed from the
Truckell suggestion that the Griersons were related to the lordship of
Galloway.

My line of thought was (given the Truckell idea):
Gilbert (died 1185) was Lord of Galloway .
His son, Duncan, (1st earl of Carrick, died 1250) was witness to the Charter
of *[25] Edgar son of Dovenald *of AD1202-1206

Now if this Duncan had a son Gilbert (I thought), we would have a nice
progression. However (and this is what I meant by my post), there is no "evidence"
that I can find which connects our Gilbert (Greresone) to the earldom of
Carrick. All we can say is that both Duncan and Gilbert were popular choices for
names in this branch of the Galloway family (which I see the Kennedys claim
for theirs), and presumably the names would also be popular among the local
landed families.
According to the author of the Wikipedia article on the earldom of Carrick,
Duncan had at least 5 sons: Niall, Cailean, Eoin, Ailean, Alasdair.

No sign of a Gilbert, although the name re-appeared in the next
generations according to:
http://www.baronage.co.uk/bphtm-03/bruce-01.html but they all are shown
as "de Carrick".

So I'm afraid that this line of thought has collapsed.
Regards
David Grierson










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