DNA-R1B1C7-L Archives

Archiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2007-08 > 1186082927


From: "Donald Milligan" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] R1b1c7 in Scotland
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 12:28:47 -0700
References: <c3b.1845611b.33e36052@aol.com>


good stuff, as a reward, we will tatoo "regarde bien' upon both testicles!

as i was reading your email, it occured to me that the cinel moan were under
the o'neils grouping, while the o'mulligans of the cenel connell were of the
o'donnell grouping. so, it would seem that if indeed, the amuliganes were
descended from one of the o'mulligans of nw ulster, it is more likely
desended from the cenel connell o'mulligans, rather than the o'neil
o'mulligans. also, since the cenel connell were in league with the de
galloways, it would also follow that the amuliganes were possibly descended
from the o'muliganes of cenel connell?
what say ye oracle o' galloway? donald o'mulligane of cenel connell
----- Original Message -----
From: <>
To: <>
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 9:29 AM
Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] R1b1c7 in Scotland


> In a message dated 23/07/2007 03:29:28 GMT Standard Time,
> writes:
>
> I find it difficult to think of a single reason why NW Irish DNA (and in
> particular, Cenel Conaill DNA) might have wound up in the lowlands of
> Scotland
> after 400 A.D. The Cenel Conaill had some initial royal status in
> Ireland,
> furnishing a number of High Kings prior to 800 A.D. Thereafter their
> power
> and
> influence in the affairs of the north of Ireland waned for centuries and
> they were largely confined as local chieftains of the Tir Conaill in
> Donegal.
> In later centuries the O'Donnells forged alliances with the MacDonalds
> of
> the
> western Isles - fosterage, marriages, gallowglasses. Prior to 1200 A.D.
> the
> O'Doherty surname was unknown in Ireland. They first came to the
> attention
> of the Irish annalists following their takeover of previously Cenel
> Eoghain
> territory in Inishowen which followed on the heels of the Norman De
> Burgo
> withdrawal from Inishowen.
>
> John
>
> I would welcome a copy of Ewan Campbell's article. It might not seem there
> is an obvious reason why the NW Irish DNA appear in the Lowlands of
> Scotland,
> or should we say the southwest of Scotland, after 400 AD; I would suggest
> there is. Besides the most obvious link through the Community of Iona, we
> have
> the age of the Gall-Gaedhil, who appear to have given their name to
> Galloway
> and emerge as a fighting force after 800 AD. There is no need for me to
> comment
> on the history of this people, enough has already been written about
> them.
> There can be little doubt, that from 900 to 1200 AD the southwest of
> Scotland
> underwent a change from being Brythonic speaking to Gaelic. By the time
> we
> finally capture this transition in language and culture by the middle of
> 1100s, when Fergus of Galloway emerges from obscurity, their small kingdom
> was in
> decline. David I, king of Scots had already begun the process of
> assimulation. Furthermore, the process of Normanising the old kingdom of
> Strathclyde had
> already begun.
>
> In the context of Galloway, it is worth reflecting again on some of the
> tentative links with Co. Donegal during the rule of the De Galloways. The
> sons of
> Rolland of Galloway played a part in the poltical affairs of NW Ireland.
> Here I refer to the Annals:
>
>
> AU 1212
> Thomas, son of Uchtrach* with the sons of Raghnall, son of Somarle, came
> to
> Daire of St. Colum-cille with six and seventy ships and the town was
> greatly
> destroyed by them and Inis-Eogain was completely destroyed by them and by
> the
> Cenel-Conaill.
> * Gaelic = “Tomas mac Uchtraigh”. Thomas was the son of Roland son of
> Uchtred.
> AU 1214
> Thomas, son of Uchtrach and Ruaidhri, son of Raghnall, plundered Daire
> completely and took the treasures of the Community of Daire and of the
> North of
> Ireland besides from out the midst of the church of the Monastery.
> The inference from the 1212 entry is that the Thomas de Galloway, brother
> of
> Alan, lord de Galloway and constable of Scotland, suggests, the Cenel
> Conaill were in alliance with the De Galloways and the sons of Somerled
> against the
> kindred of Cenel Eogan in Inis Eogain. This whole event needs to be set
> in a
> wider context. 76 ships sailed from the west of Scotland, that is a
> formidable fleet. According to Andrew McDonald, the raid of 1212 has been
> linked with
> the attempts of John de Grey, the justiciar of Ireland (1208-12), to
> establish King John's presence in the north of Ireland. Springer on the
> other hand
> makes a slightly more astute observation, and suggests that these attacks
> were
> directed againtst areas from which the 'meic Uilleim' had drawn support,
> and
> it is perhaps significant in this context that Gofraid meic Uilleim seems
> to
> have been unable to replace his losses of 1211 with fresh Irish
> warrriors,
> which evidently contributed to his desertion and betrayal by his erswhile
> supporters in Ross. The meic Uilleim, better known as the MacWilliams
> were of
> the ancient Scots king line.
> The point I am making is this, it has been shown that those who ruled on
> the
> margins of the Scottish kingdom, such as, Galloway, Moray and Argyle,
> could
> often find allies in Ireland. There is evidence to show the McWilliams
> were
> allied to the O'Neills. If an alliance existed between the Cenel Conaill
> and
> the old kingdom of Galloway, it could well have been forged as far back
> as the
> 11th century. The late Daphne Brooke put forward a very compelling case
> for
> the establishment of Columbian dedications of Iona in Galloway from this
> period onwards. Certainly, this would suggest to me, it is possible the
> R1b1c7
> type could have settled in Galloway at some point during 11th and 12th
> century.
>
> For me and others, the question foremost on our minds is this, could
> there
> be a link between the Ua Maolagain of the Cenel Moan in Donegal and the
> Amuliganes of Galloway? This is a niggling question, which doesn't seem
> to want to
> go away. I have updated some research on the Cenel Moan, and added it to
> the
> the following webpage:
> _The Septs of Ua Maolagain_
> (http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~alanmilliken/Research/IrishRecords/Miscellaneous/SeptUaMaelagain.html)
> As mentioned in a previous email, there was a Cenelman or Cenelmaine in
> Wightownshire. I wonder if Cenelman could be a corruption for Cenelmoan!!
> It is
> possible. It is unlikely though that the Cenelman where in Galloway
> before
> 11th century. It is more likely they settled under the Norse-Irish
> group that
> arrived from this period onwards. In the Annals of Ulster, the Cenel
> Moan
> only begin to emerge as "Cenel" in the 11th century in Donegal. Is there
> a
> link between the two? The Amuliganes appear in Wigtownshire about the
> same
> time as the McCords, Chiefs of the Cenelman, and lived in the same
> vicinity in
> Wigtown! Muircetach Ua Maolagain, became Abbot of Derry Columcille in
> 1220.
> Unfortunately, we do not know how long he remained in this office. He had
> a
> son called John. Combine all this with the NW Irish R1b1c7 Study, and it
> seems
> to me, there is an interesting case in the making!!
> Alan
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
> quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This thread: