DNA-R1B1C7-L Archives

Archiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2007-08 > 1185981368


From: "thomas and catherine tucker" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] Confusing classifications
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 11:16:08 -0400


On August 1st David Wilson noted recent reasons on FTDNA R1b1c7's
projection:

I know this seems inconsistent in a big-picture view, but it is probably
consistent with the FTDNA projection algorithm, whose details are
proprietary and which is undoubtedly fairly complex.
>
[Original Message]
> From: David Wilson <>
> To: <>
> Date: 8/1/2007 10:30:43 AM
> Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] Confusing classifications
>
David my question is about a clarity on CDY a? In the Niall marker modal
and also on the Northwest marker modal displayed on your written tablet of
"The Northwest Irish Variety" modal ... CDY a ... is 37. However, in the
colorazation chart CDY a at 37 is considered a miss for the modal.

Was there a shift in value because more R1b1c7's (SNP deep clade tested)
have a consistently different read on that marker...therefore, the standard
value changed?

Thank you,

Thomas Tucker



I know this seems inconsistent in a big-picture view, but it is probably
> consistent with the FTDNA projection algorithm, whose details are
> proprietary and which is undoubtedly fairly complex.
>
> I think the reports you provide say there is probably NO chance (which is
to
> say no observed or likely instances of convergence) that would permit a
> 12-marker haplogroup with 390=25, 385b=13 and 392=15 to be anything other
> than R1b1c7. I happen to believe there is no chance that a 25-13-14
> haplotype (same markers) could resemble Niall by convergence, but if their
> algorithm says there is a possibility, I'll live with that for the time
> being. We know that there are non-R1b1c7 haplotypes that share two of
those
> three markers, so maybe their algorithm has a margin-of-error element to
it.
>
> As they say, not everyone has had a DeepSNP test. As those tests increase,
> the confidence levels should increase for their projections, at which
point
> we should see more projections at the more refined clade levels.
>
> As an aside, I have noticed is an odd disagreement between the projected
> clade on personal pages and the projected clade on compiled data tables.
> There are some members of the R1b1c7 project who are projected R1b1c7 on
> their personal pages but still appear as R1b1 or R1b1c on the project
> summary tables available on the public web site at FTDNA or the mutation
> colorization table I mentioned recently.
>
> David Wilson
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> [mailto:] On Behalf Of

> Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 6:06 AM
> To:
> Subject: [DNA-R1B1C7] Confusing classifications
>
> What don't I understand? I have two new members, both tested at 12
> markers only, whom I assigned to my Northwest Cluster. One has the
> identical haplotype as "Niall," and FTDNA awarded him the Niall green
icon.
> Yet his suggested haplotype is R1b1. When I asked FTDNA why he was not
> suggested to be R1b1c7, I received this reply:
> "Due to convergence, some 12 marker haplotypes who match the Niall of
> Nine Hostages are not also R1b1c7 so matching the Niall lineage on 12
> markers does not automatically mean belonging to R1b1c7. The males who
have
> had 12 markers tested and have received SNP tests are used in the
comparison
> of 12 markers for the purposes of predicting the haplogroup for a sample.
> Not everyone who has tested in the SNP database has had the Deep SNP R1b1
> performed on their sample and the R1b1s that are shown, now, outnumber the
> R1b1c7s. As this changes with more people testing the prediction will
> likely change to R1b1c7 on the personal pages and eventually in the
chart."
> OK, The other member, who came in through the Genographic project, does
> not have the green icon, is only an 11/12 match with Niall (he has 15 at
292
> while Niall has 14), but is suggested to be R1b1c7. Wouldn't the
convergence
> caveat also apply to him?
>
> <<SNIP>>
>
>
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