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From:
Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] R1b1c7 in Scotland
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 13:05:20 EDT



David, if you don't mind, I would like to add a little more to what you say,
as it will add to your DNA study and perhaps help others. As Sir Philip J.
Hamiton-Grierson testifies in his "The Lag Charters 1400-1720", Gilbert
Geresoun, 1st of Lag was the "son of Duncan". The seal of Gilbert Greresoun of Lag
has survived and was appended to a charter preserved in the 'Liber de
Melros'. It stands to reason, that Duncan was also a "Grersoun" and should be
considered the first known ancestor of this family, ie. Duncan Greresoun. He
probably lived at Ard in the parish of Tynron, where Gilbert lived prior to
acquiring the land of Lag from John McRath of Laught. Duncan was probably alive in
the mid 1300s.

Now here is history in the making, is there a reference to a 'Gilbert son of
Duncan', as Gilbert's seal testifies to amongst the surviving records that
have come down to us relating Nithsdale? The answer is YES. In an age when
surnames were still not fixed, it would have been common place for Gilbert to be
known as Gilbert son of Duncan or Duncan's son if Duncan was living at the
time. In the rent roll for the barony of Tibers and Morton, owned at that
time by the Earl of Dunbar, appears the name of 'Gilbert son of Duncan' who
rented the land of Laugh in the barony and parish of Morton Take a look at the
following rent roll and scroll down to lands of parcum of Mortan and Laucht.

_Rent Roll of 1376_
(http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~alanmilliken/Research/ScottishRecords/Miscellaneous/MortonRentRoll.html)

I would think Gilbert's father Duncan was also connected to mid Nithsdale.
There was at one time a family known by the name Duncanson, who might well
have descended from the same ancestor - "Grere". Was Duncan the son of 'Grere'?
In the absence of definite proof, we will probably never know. One thing is
very clear, 'Grere' has nothing to do with the McGregors; he was more than
likely a native from mid Nithsdale, who like the McRaths, also spelt McRae or
Rae, were a very old Nithsdale family.

To ask another question, could Gilbert have descended from the Lords of
Nithsdale? This is a very interesting question, given Gilbert appears to be
connected to the old lands attached to Morton Castle, the old seat of the Lords of
Nithsdale? It would take too long to explain my theory on this, but the
starting point lies in a charter granted by Edgar son of Dovenald, which in the
following webpage is numbered 27.

_Early Nithsdale Documents 1200-1240_
(http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~alanmilliken/Research/ScottishRecords/Miscellaneous/NithsdaleDocuments2.htm
l)

In short, the name Gilbert seems to have been a family name passed from
generation to generation amongst the Griersons, and I wonder if this family could
have been descended from Gilbert grandson of Edgar. The land of Laught
bounds the old parish of Dalgarnock. There is certainly food for thought here.

King Regards

Alan



In a message dated 26/07/2007 00:53:03 GMT Standard Time,
writes:

wrote:

There were clans who moved into the border areas of Scotland from the
highland areas (including a group of McGregors who became border Griersons).


Hello Linda,

I am intrigued by the above statement of yours. May I ask for the basis of
the proposition? Whilst it fits with the family lore in my case, I have been
unable to justify it. There are a number of contra arguments.
1. In terms of extant documentation, Grierson is an older surname than
MacGregor.
2. The nineteenth century genealogical tables have in many cases turned out
to be fabrications (in part, anyway), just a form of social climbing.
3. In my case, I am M222+, while almost all MacGregors show as R1b1.
4. None of the Grier(son), Greer or McGreer testees so far found have a
haplotype that could be considered as descending from the MacGregor founder. This
includes some who claim descent from Grierson of Lag (this being the family
that 150 years ago claimed to be of early MacGregor blood).

My paper trail peters out in Galloway around the beginning of the 18th
century, however, Grier(son) is identified in the region 300 years before that. I
would appreciate any input you might have.
Regards
David Grierson










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