DNA-R1B1C7-L ArchivesArchiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2007-07 > 1184998556
From: "David Wilson" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] "Niall Box" or icon (WAS: DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 1,Issue 55/Strasser)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 23:15:56 -0700
References: <firstname.lastname@example.org> <004801c7cb49$dc9f7f80$0132a8c0@DW><46A191AD.email@example.com>
Yes, FTDNA has a few different icons that they slap on the personal pages of
individuals whose haplotypes are exact matches for established patterns. I
know about the Western Atlantic Modal Haplotype (WAMH) and Niall icons.
There may be others as well, but I haven't seen them and so can't swear to
it. The icon is placed not on the basis of haplogroup, but on an exact or
maybe off-by-one haplotype match. It's probably a 12-marker match in both
So I am in the odd situation of being SNP-tested M222+ by another company,
having the Niall marker on my personal page because I am a 12/12 match for
the NW Irish modal haplotype, and being projected as R1b1 because I did not
do a SNP test with FTDNA and have a test that dates back to the era when kit
numbers had only four digits.
You are in the position of being a SNP-tested member of R1b1c7 but not
having the Niall icon because you differ from the modal haplotype at DYS390.
I don't know if you have seen this page, but you get to it by clicking on
the Niall icon if you have it:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of J. David Grierson
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 1, Issue 55/Strasser
"....the Niall box...." I take it this refers to some icon which FTDNA
suggests associates you with the Niall line of descent.
I haven't anything that I would recognise as such, altho' I am FTDNA tested
M222+. Does this, in your view, suggest that FTDNA places my descent
I am perfectly happy with this deduction, but there seems to be a growing
body of opinion that M222+ is more recent than earlier suggested, and that
Niall is fairly close to the founder.
David Wilson wrote:
>Yes, there appears to be an issue of time-depth in the projected
>haplotypes associated with particular STR sequences. I have the Niall
>box on my home page, but my projected haplogroup is still R1b1 (not
>even R1b1c!). I did my
>M222 SNP test through EthnoAncestry before FTDNA was offering deep
>clade testing, and there is no way to import into FTDNA's data base the
>results produced by another firm.
>I would like to believe that at some point FTDNA will reanalyze a lot
>of their haplotypes and update their projections. They have updated
>sections of their data base in the past. When I first tested back in
>2003, I was projected R1b. The extra tier showed up after the
>coordination with the Genographic project was announced. I think that
>was because FTDNA had to incorporate the M343 SNP into their labeling
>system and distinguish it from P25.
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