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Archiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2007-07 > 1184954438


From:
Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] Advanced Test for Northwest Irish
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 14:00:38 EDT


In a message dated 7/20/2007 6:29:13 A.M. Central Standard Time,
writes:

Although John McEwan is waiting for additional evidence, preliminary tests
of 464x for people of possible Leinster ancestry seem to show that a test
result of ccgg may well be an indicator.
Those of us who are R1b1c7 may not need additional proof, but it would be
interesting to determine whether 464x test results can be used for other
geographic origins. Have any other of you R1b1c7s been tested for 464x, and if so,
would you share your results? I tested as ccgc.

Paul Burns

I have a question about the DYS 464X tests and results.

John McEwen on his web site has a list of people who have tested positive
for DYS 464ccgg. Most of these are 15c-15c-17g-17g, but at least one is
15c-15c-17g-18g (Stephens). The list includes the following names, all grouped in
his R1bSTR7 cluster:

Beattie R1b1c/ccgg7+ T78VB R1bSTR7? Ireland
Beatty R1b1c/ccgg7+ V929P R1bSTR7? N Ireland
Beaty R1b1c/ccgg7+ CD3XA R1bSTR7? Ireland
Beaty9 R1b1c/ccgg7+ EZRDK R1bSTR7 Scotland
Burns R1b1c/ccgg7+ 63PFZ R1bSTR7? Ireland
Byrne R1b1c/ccgg7+ RE7TY R1bSTR7? Ireland
Fitzwilliam R1b1c/ccgg7+ K7TAW R1bSTR7? Isle of Mann
Jordan R1b1c/ccgg7+ M8PSX R1bSTR7 Ireland
McHale R1b1c/ccgg7+ S7EM6 R1bSTR7? Ireland
Stephens R1b1c/ccgg7+ 62TQZ R1bSTR7

Not yet in this list is a McLaughlin from Ireland, also 15c-15c-17g-17g.
(CXW9Y)

Everyone in the above list fits what Paul has described as the Leinster
modal, characterized by a DYS 389-1 = 14, DYS 389-2 = 30; DYS 448, 449 = 18-30;
DYS 460, GATA H4 = 11-11; DYS 442 = 11.

A couple of different modals on Ysearch describe this DNA (B9NW4 is one of
them). It seems to pull up matches mainly from the south of Ireland
(Leinster, but also some in Munster and Connacht; virtually none in Ulster); and also
in England and Scotland.

Some old messages posted by John led me to believe that a few other people
had tested positive for 464ccgg in addition to those in the above list (an
Eckersley and a Barlow). This seems confirmed by at least one result listed
by DNA Fingerprint on their site, which lists an Eckersley/Crompton from
Lancashire, Wales, as 15c-15c-17g-17g. But this same Eckersley is listed on
John's R1b page in a different cluster (R1bSTR16) with no indication that he
tested positive for ccgg at 464X (3qqdv on Ysearch).

What I found interesting about the Eckersley sample is it only matches
part of the Leinster modal. In fact it's so different I'm not sure it matches
at all ( which is no doubt why it occupies a different cluster in John's
analysis). The other surname matches mentioned in the posts (Barlow) are nearly
identical to the Eckersley sample. There's a large group of them in the
Barlow DNA project at:

_http://www.barlowgenealogy.com/Options/BARLOWDNAPROJECT.htm_
(http://www.barlowgenealogy.com/Options/BARLOWDNAPROJECT.htm)



A 25 marker search in Ysearch at 3 GD for Eckersley (3qqdv) doesn't match
much of anything but Barlows. Also a few Lowes and two Peacocks. At 37
markers, nothing but Barlows.

In our McLaughlin project, we have a group of McCloughans who also match the
Leinster modal. At least one of these is currently being tested for 464X -
both of these are 15-15-1-17-18 at 464. The McCloughans have an oral family
traditon of being Scots-Irish from Ulster but they don't know for sure.

I know research into 464X is ingoing and it's probably premature to make
any grand statements about possible sub-clades until more tests come in - but
I find it difficult to reconcile the Leinster modal results with the
Eckersley/Barlow results, all of whom appear to be ccgg at Dys 464.



John




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