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Archiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2007-06 > 1180909176


From: Steven Lominac <>
Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] R1b1c7 in England
Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2007 17:19:36 -0500


Paul, I have Brune slotted under Brown, for now anyway. Found this in Woulfe's. I have a Woulfe's CD for anyone who wants me to look up a name and copy and paste:

•De Brun—XII—de Brune, Brown, Browne ; Nor. ' le
Brun,' i.e., the brown, from the complexion; an old
Norman surname, extremely common in England.
It came into Ireland at the time of the Anglo-Norman
invasion, and is now also very common in this country.
The most important families of the name in Ireland
in the 16th century were those (i) of Galway, of which
the Brownes were one of the ' tribes '; (2) of the Neale,
Co. Mayo ; (3) of Malrancan, Co. Wexford; (4) of
Hariston, Co. Waterford ; (5) of Aney, Co. Limerick;
(6) of Kilpatrick, Co. Westmeath; and (7) of Dunbrowne,
Co. Kerry. The Brownes of Kenmare came
to Ireland only in the reign of Elizabeth, but by
purchase and intermarriage succeeded to the vast
estates of MacCarthy More, O'Sullivan More, and
O'Donoghue of Ross, and as Earls of Kenmare have
held an important place in the social and public life
of the country.

Steve Lominac
> From: > To: > Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2007 09:24:21 +0000> Subject: [DNA-R1B1C7] R1b1c7 in England> > John:> You pointed out that there are many very English surnames in the R1b1c7 data bank. You also said that many (most?) are from the north near the Scottish border. If R1b1c7 originated thousands of years before surnames were adopted among a people that occupied northwest Ireland AND southwest Scotland, it seems logical to me that descendants could have spread south in Britain and later, when surnames came along, adopted those English names. > Could some of the French, German, and other continental R1b1c7s have resulted from genetic drift? There has to be a certain amount of that. However, one of them (Brune - Germany) is so close to my Burns surname that I have to wonder.> Incidentally, I ran Kevin Campbell's 10-marker OGAP8 (Irish) through Ysearch, and 604 perfect matches were returned! I also ran OGAP5 (my Leinster cluster) and OGAP10 (my Northeast cluster) and received 481 and 483 returns. Perhaps 10 markers are too few to properly define subclades> Paul> > -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
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