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Archiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2007-06 > 1180871888

Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 1, Issue 3
Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2007 07:58:08 EDT

In a message dated 6/2/2007 9:02:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

can buy into the Scottish matches being descended from Irish colonists at
Iona or some other similar explanation. Some have mentioned other Irish
monastic foundations elsewhere in Scotland. These I know nothing about.
it's extremely difficult for me to imagine someone named Waddleworth in
being descended from Nial 'of the Nine Hostages.' The Waddleworth DNA came
from the Sorenson database. The first 12 markers are a perfect match with
Irish DNA. If he'd tested at FTDNA they would have stuck a Nial pin on his
chromosome page after the first 12 markers.

This is all very strange and wonderful. But at the same time pretty hard


HISTORY. According to ancient family traditions (which are largely supported
by known historical fact; and which are first recorded in the very short
family history, “The Original of the Family of the Irvines or Erinvines',
written in 1678 by Dr. Christopher Irvine, M.D., Historiographer Royal of Scotland)
the Irvings of Bonshaw are descended from DUNCAN, known in the family as
'Duncan of Eskdale', a younger brother of Crinan, the husband of Princess
Beatrix and father of King Duncan I of Scotland. The paternal grandfather of Duncan
of Eskdale and Crinan was DUNCAN, hereditary Abthane of Dule and lay abbot of
Dunkeld. The latter Duncan is now believed to have been a direct descendant
of NIALL OF THE NINE HOSTAGES, who was high King of Ireland early in the 5th
century A.D and progenitor of the oldest recorded families in Europe that
are still extant in an unbroken male line. The Duncan, as Abthane of Dule-an
ancient title connected with St. Adamnan's abbey of Dull, and dating from
nearly 200 years before the union of the Scottish and Pictish crowns in 843
A.D.-was of more consequence than any one of the seven Pictish 'Mormaers', being
second only to the king himself in power and importance. He appears to have
been appointed Governor of Strathclyde when that region was conquered by the
Saxons and given to Malcolm I of Alban (the early name of Scotland) in 946. His
residence in Strathclyde is supposed to have been the old fort of Eryvine, or
Orewyn, where the town of Irvine now stands, so we refer to him the '1st of
Eryvine'. Both Duncan and his neighbour Dubdon, Mormaer of Athole, were
killed at the battle of Duncrub c. 965 A.D., while leading their forces against a
strong rebel army of their fellow countrymen.*
DUNCAN, 1st of ERYVINE, was succeeded by his eldest son and heir, also
DUNCAN, about whom we know little except that he also seems to have succeeded
Dubdon as Mormaer of Athole, as he is called 'Lord of Athole'. At the battle of
Luncarty (of uncertain date), where the Danes were routed, Duncan commanded
the left wing of the Scottish forces, under King Kenneth III. This Duncan is
the progenitor of the oldest recorded families in Great Britain; the noble
family of Dunbar is certainly descended from him, and traditionally so are the
noble families of Irving and Home, all in the male line; not to mention the
Royal Family and numerous other families by female descent.
DUNCAN, 2ND OF ERYVINE, was succeeded by his eldest son, CRINAN, who married
Princess Beatrix (or Bethoc) daughter and heiress of King Malcolm II of
Scotland, and by her was father of Duncan I, who reigned as King of Scotland for
six years. Crinan was the progenitor in the male line of all the kings of
Scotland down to Alexander III (died 1286), and in the female line of all the
sovereigns of Scotland down to the present day, with the sole exception of
Macbeth, who murdered his son, King Duncan, in 1040, and reigned for the next
seventeen years. Tradition tells us that Crinan maintained a residence at
Eryvine, but that he was the last of his family to do so, the fortress being used
solely for military purposes thereafter. He was killed by Macbeth's forces in
1045, while trying to avenge his son's death and grandson's deposition

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