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Archiver > DANIEL > 2004-10 > 1098826439


From: "John R. Clarke" <>
Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] 1726 William DANIEL Deed in Bertie County, NC
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:33:59 -0400
References: <200410260226.i9Q2QM6T012463@mail.rootsweb.com> <001401c4bb5f$af06c440$6401a8c0@payne1> <00f801c4bb67$5e22c8a0$0300a8c0@WIN2000> <001d01c4bb74$0dd94600$6401a8c0@payne1>


Payne,
Let's just say these O'DANIELS in Bertie are too close for me to
overlook. My LANE cousin, Frank THOMPSON, of Wayne County, NC has been
researching his LANE and related families for over 35 years. One of these
related families is the YELVERTONS and Frank has told me the LANES and
YELVERTONS migrated from Bertie County, NC to Greene and Wayne County, NC in
the pre-RW era.
Since Frank and I share a common ancestor, Capt. Isham LANE, we kind of
what out for each others families and we both believe my DANIEL bunch kind
of floated in the same circle of folks, otherwise Penelope LANE would not
have married Robert C. DANIEL. Does that make sense?
As soon as I find a DANIEL tied to a LANE or close LANE collateral I
will have a pretty good ides to which DANIEL family my bunch were out of.
That said. I am sure my DANIEL family's assignment may well upset a few
apple carts because we already know to which DANIEL family my bunch is
related, DNA wise, and none of these folks are within sight of my DANIEL
bunch in eastern NC. So, there is something else going on in this area of
NC and I am just going back over what we do know about the DANIEL related
families in this area of NC and looking for any link in this bunch back to
Middlesex County, VA.

John R. Clarke
Thomasville, GA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Payne Daniel" <>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] 1726 William DANIEL Deed in Bertie County, NC


> OK, you are inferring that the Owen Daniel who died in 1701 was the father
> of one Owen O'Daniel who was the brother of 1686's Thomas Daniel? Thomas
> Daniel is shown in Owen Daniel's will but an Owen Daniel Jr., is not.
> There
> is a contrast between the two Owens, Daniel and O'Daniel. Owen O'Daniel's
> will date was 12 Mar 1735/36 Craven Precinct, and Owen Daniel's will date
> was 7 Mar 1700 Chowan Precinct. I have the extracts.
>
> So the debate is, was the Owen O'Daniel who appears in the 1724 Bertie
> Deeds
> a Sr., or a Jr., and was Jr. a son of Owen Daniel who died in 1701? Nope!
>
> In the VA Patent Book 6, Page 450 (page 124 in Cav & Pio II) Owen Daniel
> is
> not referred to as an O'Daniel but as a Daniel. These Bertie Deeds may
> infer
> that there was an Owen Daniel Jr.:
> Bertie County, N.C., Deed Book B, Page 28, 25 Oct. 1725: Owen (O)(his
> mark)
> Daniel to John Edwards, Junr., L20 for 640 acres on north side of Roquis,
> a
> branch of Casia, adjoining Martain Gardner, John Edwards, Theo. Williams.
> Witnesses: George Smith, Thomas Busbie. Nov. Court 1725. John Winns,
> Deputy
> Clerk of Court. [(O) was his mark not his name!]
>
> Bertie County, N.C., Deed Book G, Page 252, 23 Oct. 1734: Owen Daniel of
> Edgecombe Precinct in County of Bath to Richard Rowland, a young horse for
> 137 acres on east side of Wattom Swamp at Bosom Branch adjoining Col.
> West.
> Witnesses: John Sholar, William Gardner, Martin Gardner.
>
> Toss out the befuddling collaterals and we have two Owens, one a Daniel
> and
> the other an O'Daniel. Owen O'Daniel had a son Owen Jr., who had sons were
> Frederick and Isaac of Bertie County, N C.
>
> Owen Daniel's children for sure were Mary and Thomas and probably Simon
> Daniel but I don't think that Mike buys that assignment. We can only
> conclude from the records that there was probably an Owen Daniel Jr., as
> well. There are distinctions here, some records say Owen Daniel and some
> say
> Owen O'Daniel but their will dates and death dates were provably
> different.
>
> Was Owen O'Daniel who was born about 1756/1761 and died Oct. 1834, Duplin
> Co., NC, the son of Owen O'Daniel Sr., or Jr.? He married Charity
> Whitfield.
>
> Some more grist for your mill John. Keep grinding.
>
> Thought for the day: "The real art of conversation is not only to say the
> right thing at the right time, but also to leave unsaid the wrong thing at
> the tempting moment."
>
>
> Payne
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John R. Clarke" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 10:23 AM
> Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] 1726 William DANIEL Deed in Bertie County, NC
>
>
> Payne,
> These are all of my deeds and notes on Owen O'DANIEL and the land in
> Cassia Swamp in Bertie is a integral part of this and it ends up in the
> family of Gov. John DAWSON, who is also listed in these deeds.
> You may stick to your guns, that's your prerogative, but please note
> the
> William WILLSON listed in the these same deeds, where he lived and who
> ended
> up with this former WILLSON property in Cassia Swamp - John DAWSON. Also,
> please remember that Sarah DANIEL, d/o Thomas and Elizabeth DANIEL of
> Tyrrell, married John WILLSON, son of this same William WILLSON.
> What it may well be is that your Owen who died in 1700 and this Owen
> DANIEL of Cassia Swamp were father and son and this would help explain the
> connections we see between this Owen and Thomas's family later in the
> WHITFIELDS.
> Even more interesting are the deeds of Henry OVERSTREET and these
> include the same bunch of folks, as well as Owen O'DANIEL and Henry's son,
> John OVERSTREET, married Dorcas WARD, d/o Col. John WARD and Rebecca
> GARDNER
> and her brother, John Edward WARD, married Sarah DANIEL, another daughter
> of
> Thomas and Elizabeth DANIEL of Tyrrell County, NC.
>
> What I think is Owen O'DANIEL, Jr. of Bertie was 1686 Thomas DANIEL's
> brother and this explains the connections we see in this bunch to the
> WARDS,
> WILLSONS and WHITFIELDS.....
>
>
> <<<
> John Edwards & Wife To Peter Stancell Know all men by these presents that
> I
> John Edwards & Elizabeth my wife do firmly by these presents Constitute
> Authorize and ordain in my Names & Head my trusty and well beloved friend
> Peter Stancell, Our true & lawfull Attorney to Acknowledge a certain Tract
> of land in Bertie Prect. Court unto Owen O'Daniel of his Attorney and what
> and Attorney shall lawfully do shall stand in as full force & power as if
> we
> were personally in place as witness and Hand this 10th Day of August 1724,
>
> John Edwards, Elizabeth X Edwards
>
> This Power of Attorney was Proved by the Oath of Phillip Watson.
> Evidence Thereto, John Sutton Dept Clerk Court
>
> Bertie County, NC
> 1724, August 8 - John Edwards, Jr., and wife Elizabeth to Owen O'Daniel,
> five pounds for 100 acres on Casiah Swamp. Witnesses, William Jones and
> Henry Overstreet.
>
>
> Bertie County, NC Deeds
>
> HENRY KING warrant dated 16, July 1755 to BENJAMIN WYNNS to survey 640 ac
> in Bertie Co on the SOUTH SIDE OF CASHY SWAMP at a Place where OWEN
> O'DANIEL
> formerly Surveyed part of which one GOFFE lives on entered 1 June 1754
> /s/FRAS CORBIN Back of document reads: "Deed 20 April
> 1758" [Miscellaneous Land Offic Papers by Hofman]
>
> OWEN ODANIEL Patent dated Mar 30, 1721 480 ac on ye SOUTH SIDE OF
> CASSIA,
> joining ye N.E. side of little Raquis swamp and JAMES WILLIAMS
>
> OWEN ODANIEL Patent dated Dec 22, 1724 550 ac on SOUTH WEST SIDE OF
> CASSAY
> SWAMP adj. JOHN EDWARDS, several branches and the MAIN SWAMP. Patent BK
> III, p.184
>
> GEORGE STEVENS Patent dated Dec 22, 1724. 300 ac on SOUTHWEST SIDE of
> CASSAY SWAMP adj. OWEN ODANIEL, a branch & the MAIN SWAMP. Patent BK
> III,
> p.184
>
> NICHOLAS SESSIONS Patent dated Feb 1, 1725 420 ac on SOUTH WEST SIDE of
> CASSAY SWAMP joining SOUTHERNMOST branch of CASSAY, THOMAS MAN, OWEN
> ODANIEL
> & the MAIN
> SWAMP. Vol III p. 189
>
> HENRY KING warrant dated 16, July 1755 to BENJAMIN WYNNS to survey 640 ac
> in Bertie Co on the SOUTH SIDE OF CASHY SWAMP at a Place where OWEN
> O'DANIEL
> formerly Surveyed part of which one GOFFE lives on entered 1 June 1754
> /s/FRAS CORBIN Back of document reads: "Deed 20 April
> 1758" [Miscellaneous Land Offic Papers by Hofman]
>
> Mar 10, 1740 The Crown to William Willson, 100 ac in Bertie Co on the
> HEAD
> OF CASHIA, joining Dogwood Neck. this land was sold by one of Willson's
> heirs to COL JOHN DAWSON, who died a few month later, devising it to his
> son HENRY DAWSON who resold it in 1766 to WILLIAM RAWLS.
>
> John Dawson bought the dower rights from Judith Moore Wilson and her new
> husband, John Hurst in 1750, after some kind of legal challange was
> settled: Aug 27, 1750 "100 acres in Bertie Co. known by name of Dogwood
> Neck. Wit: Richard Wills & Benja. Lee & Isaac Willson,(son of William
> Willson)
>
> Col. John Dawson devised this 100 acres to his son Henry in his will: Nov
> ___, 1750 "Henry Dawson, son
> plantation whereon __ live, joining Alexander Stevenson, Crooked Marsh,
> Mrs
> S____ and William Burns being 300 acres in Braswell's Neck, also also to
> son
> Henry, land and plantation I bought of Maurice Moore and Island plantation
> and the 640 ac thereunto belonging. Also 100 ac in Bertie Co. bought of
> JOHN
> WILSON and all of my land on Tar River being in 3 parcels and being in the
> whole about 700 ac. Also a horse and Maurice Moore's debt
> to me by bond."
>
>
> Children
> Mary O'DANIEL b: 1677
> John O'DANIEL b: 1678
> Thomas O'DANIEL b: 1686 in Isle of Wright, Virginia
>
> Bertie County, NC Deeds
>
> 1726? Undated deed from James Williams to Robert Ivey, 380 acres on
> Roquis
> Creek and Flagg Branch adjacent Henry Overstreet. Witness: Theophilus
> Williams, Richard Washington. Recorded May Court 1726. Bertie County Deed
> Book B, p118. [Roquist Creek in western Bertie, flows into the Cashie
> River. Note that Owen O'Daniel (McDaniel) owned adjoining land. Cannot
> find any record of the disposition of this land.]
>
> 1754] North Carolina A list of the Duplin Troop Capt Frederick Gregg's
> Company
> Isaac O Daniel
> Frederick O Daniel
>
> 11 Nov 1729 Henry & Ann Overstreet to Silvanna Stokes, all of
> Bertie County, 280a on Cashy Swamp at Great Marsh adjoining James Blount.
> Witness: Owen Mack Daniel, Robert Ivey. [Bertie DB C, p158.] Land was
> located in present-day northwestern Bertie County. I wonder if Owen
> MackDaniel is a descendant of the MacDaniels imported by Thomas V. Ivey's
> son? This Owen McDaniel later shows up in Duplin County.
>
> Brunswick County, VA deeds:
> Indenture made the 26th day of July, 1760, between William SMITH and
> Alexander DONALD of Northampton County, North Carolina, for 25 pounds,
> conveying 104 acres on North side of Rattlesnake Creek. Signed by William
> SMITH (his mark). Deed Book 6, page 544.
>>>>
>
>
> John R. Clarke
> Thomasville, GA
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Payne Daniel" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 9:28 AM
> Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] 1726 William DANIEL Deed in Bertie County, NC
>
>
>> Actually I am not interested in Owen O'Daniel. Since there is enough
>> documentation to distinguish him from Owen Daniel of Chowan, I will stick
>> to
>> that premise.
>>
>> John, I will get to your McDaniel etc. comments later.
>>
>> Payne
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jack Butler" <>
>> To: <>
>> Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 10:26 PM
>> Subject: RE: [DANIEL-L] 1726 William DANIEL Deed in Bertie County, NC
>>
>>
>> I have no stance on these folks - I did dig out a fair number of records
>> on
>> Owen O'Daniel a while back to clearly distinguish him from the Owen
>> Daniel
>> that usually gets talked about, but I didn't do any follow up.
>>
>> But if a name moves back and forth between Daniel and Donald, then I
>> would
>> say that you are looking at a relatively RECENT emigration from Scotland.
>> The names Daniel and Donald - both in the fore and surnames - were used
>> interchangeably in Scotland. I have done extensive research in Scotland
>> and
>> have found this phenomenon several times.
>>
>> Jack
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: John R. Clarke [mailto:]
>> Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 8:22 PM
>> To:
>> Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] 1726 William DANIEL Deed in Bertie County, NC
>>
>>
>> Payne,
>> Please remember what I said about Owen O'DANIEL. We see his name
>> spelled three different ways in various deeds - O'DANIEL, MacDaniel and
>> DONALD. What we may be seeing here is a gradual transposition of this
>> families name.
>> This makes even more sense when we look at the children of Benjamin
>> DANIEL, son of Capt. Aaron and Betsy WHITFIELD. One of them married a
>> John
>> MCDANIEL and I will bet this John was family, too.
>> Another interesting point is that Aaron DANIEL was in the St. David's
>> Society in SC and that is a Presbyterian organization and what was the
>> "church of the Scots?" Their church for all practical purposes was the
>> Presbyterian Church and were do we find the Mac or Mc prefix - Scotland.
>> It
>>
>> makes more sense to me as I look at it in greater depth.
>>
>> This is why one can never separate the name, DANIEL, from McDANIEL,
>> McDONALD or DONNELL because any one of these families may still be
>> related
>> to our DANIEL family and DNA should show us that.....
>>
>> John R. Clarke
>> Thomasville, GA
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Payne Daniel" <>
>> To: <>
>> Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 8:16 PM
>> Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] 1726 William DANIEL Deed in Bertie County, NC
>>
>>
>>> OK, there was an Owen O'Daniel in Bertieand an Owen Daniel in Tyrrell
>>> Co./Chowan , NC. And, the O'Daniels did change their name to Daniel, but
>>> were they the same family as the Daniels of Tyrrell/Chowan, I don't
>>> think
>>> so! If your Owen O'Daniel had g-son's Frederick and Isaac, who was their
>>> pappy? Is there a lineage for Owen O'Daniel of Bertie other than any
>>> mess
>>> on
>>> LDS? We have a lineage for Owen Daniel and a will record and other
>>> documentation as well. Does that count?
>>>
>>> So, what all the hub-bub bub? Owen being the son of Thomas Daniel is a
>>> bit
>>> of interesting speculation as well. Let see, Thomas was born in 1686
>>> and
>>> Owen was born in 1663, cart before the horse syndrome, what? [>> Some
>>> have
>>> even listed 1686 Thomas DANIEL who married Elizabeth LANIER as
>>> being a son of an Owen O'DANIEL<<] Some who?
>>>
>>> I believe that the William Daniel mentioned in the Bertie Transactions
>>> was
>>> the son of William Daniel and Deborah Garland Daniel because he was born
>>> in
>>> 1697 and the record is dated 1726. William the son of Simon Daniel and
>>> Elizabeth Daniel was born in 1722 and the record is dated 1726.
>>>
>>> Now, who is Joseph of Nansmond, dates please.
>>>
>>> Notes: Owen Daniel was living in Chowan Precinct of Albemarle County,
>>> North
>>> Carolina before 1700. His will March 7, 1700. He married ________ and
>>> had
>>> at
>>> least two children: (1) Thomas Daniel (a minor in 1700) died prior to
>>> Sept.
>>> Court 1749, Tyrrell County, N. C. He married Elizabeth Lanier, (daughter
>>> of
>>> Robert Lanier and wife Sarah). (2) Mary Daniel. Page 90 of Abstracts of
>>> North Carolina Wills by Grimes "Owen Daniel will March 7, 1700 Chowan
>>> Precinct N. C. (only one date) Executor Thomas Jones to take care of
>>> testator's children until they arrive of age. Son, Thomas (in care of
>>> Thomas
>>> Pollock); Daughter, Mary (in care of James Hires (?). Witnesses:
>>> Cornelius
>>> Bennington, John Jones. Clerk of the Court, N. Chevin."
>>>
>>> Are we having fun yet? Payne
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "John R. Clarke" <>
>>> To: <>
>>> Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 5:22 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] 1726 William DANIEL Deed in Bertie County, NC
>>>
>>>
>>> Payne,
>>> There was an Owen O'DANIEL b. 1663, that was the father/grandfather
>>> of
>>> Frederick and Isaac of Bertie County, NC. In fact, there may have been
>>> two
>>> Owens, father and son.
>>> It appears this Owen and his sons are listed by three names in
>>> various
>>> deeds of the area -- O'DANIEL, MacDANIEL and DONALD but since Owen is a
>>> rather non-standard name, I think it is all the same bunch.
>>> Some have even listed 1686 Thomas DANIEL who married Elizabeth LANIER
>>> as
>>> being a son of an Owen O'DANIEL and this would make sense since Thomas's
>>> son, Aaron married a Betsy WHITFIELD and Owen's son/grandson, also
>>> married
>>
>>> a
>>> WHITFIELD -- Charity WHITFIELD.
>>>
>>> John R. Clarke
>>> Thomasville, GA
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Payne Daniel" <>
>>> To: <>
>>> Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 4:48 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] 1726 William DANIEL Deed in Bertie County, NC
>>>
>>>
>>>> Nope, Owen was not an O'Daniel. But you can believe that if it makes
>>>> you
>>>> more comfortable.
>>>>
>>>> Payne
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "John R. Clarke" <>
>>>> To: <>
>>>> Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 12:07 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [DANIEL-L] 1726 William DANIEL Deed in Bertie County, NC
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> RE: I believe there is a possibility that both William & Simon may have
>>>> been sons of Joseph of Nansemond
>>>>
>>>> Mike,
>>>>
>>>> That's a possibility since Joseph is a big given name in Simon's
>>>> family.
>>>> At
>>>> least this is away from the Owen DANIEL assignment that I think someone
>>>> dreamed up. <grin> If anything, Owen was probably an O'DANIEL, at
>>>> least,
>>>> that is a name that floats in the O'DANIEL bunch from Bertie -
>>>> Alexander,
>>>> too.
>>>>
>>>> It's too bad we don't have real good handle on Simon's family like we
>>>> really
>>>> should in order to make reasonable assignments.
>>>>
>>>> One thing I notice in this family -- Robert is a big given name both
>>>> in
>>>> the DANIELS and ROGERS family. Ever thought of that?
>>>>
>>>> I also wish if I knew if Robert ROGERS, Sr. (1652-1739) was a son of
>>>> John ROGERS, Sr.(1617-1685) and Mary of Surry County, VA. John was
>>>> from
>>>> Laugharne, Carmathen, Wales and who else do we know, named DANIEL, that
>>>> was
>>>> from Wales? Anybody want to take a quick guess on this one? <grin>
>>>>
>>>> John R. Clarke
>
>
>
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