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Archiver > CHOCTAW > 2008-06 > 1212671728


From: "Wanda Carlton" <>
Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW] Choctaw ancestors in Idabel, OK
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 08:15:28 -0500
In-Reply-To: <307420.47628.qm@web82801.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


I have enjoyed reading this informative data on the OK and Indian Territory

Thanks for putting so much effort into sharing and educating me

Wanda Henson C

-----Original Message-----
From: [mailto:]On
Behalf Of Larry Payne
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 10:44 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW] Choctaw ancestors in Idabel, OK

Yes, Sharleen, you are correct. The eastern approx. 1/2 of what is now
Oklahoma was set aside for the "Five Civilized Tribes" (Choctaw, Cherokee,
Creek, Seminole, Chickasaw), in what was called the Indian Territory. And,
yes, the Choctaw Nation took up the southeastern protion thereof. Including
Idabel. I was born in McAlester, which is/was in the Choctaw Nation
(Tobucksky County in the 1800's, which is now Pittsburg County.). So many
people, who mean well, keep forgetting that Oklahoma WASN'T Oklahoma until
1907, so you'll see a lot of, for example, "Grandpa was born in 1882 in
Idabel, Oklahoma. No, he wasn't. He was born in Idabel, Choctaw Nation,
Indian Territory.
But, was there ever a Choctaw Reservation. No.
There were 5 Nations INSIDE the United States of America, with their OWN
governments. Their own Legislatures, their own Judicial system, their own
Executive branches. Their own elections, and their own law enforcement. For
many years the United States Government tried to disband these Nations, and
partially succeeded for a while, but you will find a resurgence of Native
pride and a resurgence of the Tribal Nations. Complete with, for example,
their own vehicle licenses, their own vehicle license plates, and these
licenses are independent of the State of Oklahoma, for the Choctaws,
Cherokees, Creeks, Chickasaw and Seminole Nations still exist. Complete with
their own Capitals/Capitols.
Matter-of-fact, up until Oklahoma statehood in 1907 you had to have what
is now considered a "visa" to stay in any of the Nations of Indian Territory
if you were not members of the tribe, in other words, if you were
NON-Indian.
By-the-way, just as a little personal information, I am Choctaw with a
little Cherokee Freedman mixed in for good measure. My brother just passed
away a year ago. He was an attorney in southeast Oklahoma and was Associate
District Judge in Hugo, before that District Attorney and before that County
Attorney IN Idabel. My family has a long and, I started to say "illustrious"
history in that part of the world....maybe, upon reflection, I should say
"infamous" history also, simply according to which particular member of the
family is the subject of discussion at that particular point in time.

Sharleen Metje <> wrote:


Larry,
Thanks for your input. Can I clarify then...is there NO Choctaw reservation
in the state of Oklahoma? Not even around the late 1800's early 1900's. I
ask because a cousin of my grandfathers said that they would go visit my
grandfather and his family who lived on the reservation, across from the
Iron Stobb store just outside of Idabel, Ok. I'm not from there, I live in
the Northwest, so I don't know the area well enough to know. I do recognize
that the Choctaw Nation is not the same thing as a reservation. But was
there never in all of history a Choctaw reservation in Oklahoma? I thought I
remember seeing a map recently that was from the late 1800's that showed
I.T. divided up in to different regions based on tribe and the Choctaw were
in the southeast corner...isn't that also where Idabel, Oklahoma is? Glad to
hear your input. Sharleen :)> Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 12:48:10 -0700> From:
> To: > Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW]
Choctaw
ancestors in Idabel, OK> > Sharleen,> > Not trying to be picky, but there
never was a Choctaw "indian reservation".> There was, and still is, a
Choctaw Nation. Two, as a matter-of-fact.> The Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma
and The Choctaw Nation of Mississippi.> Each with it's own court system,
police department, etc.> > Larry> > Sharleen Metje wrote:> > Hello,> I am
researching my Choctaw ancestors. My grandfather and great grandfather lived
in Idabel, Ok on the Choctaw indian reservation and attended tribal meetings
at a place called Kullituklo. They both spoke fluent Choctaw. I am trying to
find out more about my indian ancestry as my grandfather passed away when I
was a young girl so I knew very little about my heritage. > > My
grandfathers name was Floyd (Jack) Turnage born 1923 and his parents were
Wesley and Sophia Turnage born about 1880 or so. His siblings names were:
Otis, Pete, Wilmer, Clyde, and Claude. He also had an uncle named Arthur
Turnage who lived in Pollard,
Ok and had a daughter named Loree and one named Mary (as well as nine
others). > > If anyone recognizes these names or the surnames Hanson and
Henson which married into the Turnage family please contact me. I would be
so greatful for any help at all. Thank You! Sharleen :)>
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