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Archiver > BRETHREN > 2006-11 > 1162502314


From: "William Thomas" <>
Subject: Re: [BRE] Free DNA testing
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 16:18:34 -0500
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20061101193401.028b5bd0@stanford.edu>


Philip:

In regard to your comments below. First off, you don't have the DNA of Hans
Georg Ritter. You have a DNA match of someone who you believe is descended
from Hans Georg Ritter. Even though those tested have the name Ritter,
(assuming for the sake of argument you are talking eight generations, since
the Miller I spoke of was from the same period), they are still only 0.4%
(1/256) of Georg Ritter. The matches could be from another family,
recognizing the fact you have 127 male family lines to consider. This is
especially the case with Amish/Mennonite/Brethren families who constantly
intermarried among church members. As you note, even if they are valid
Ritter matches, they may not even be from Georg, but a brother or a cousin.


My point is that the more generations you go back, the more uncertainty you
incorporate into the process. DNA is very accurate in validating that you
are not related to a family line, but the accuracy of identifying a specific
relation from 200 years ago is a different story.

Bill Thomas

-----Original Message-----
From: [mailto:]
On Behalf Of Philip Ritter
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 10:55 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [BRE] Free DNA testing

Bill,

You would be correct if you were testing the recombining
("autosomal") DNA, but most genealogical testing is done on the
y-chromosome, which is passed unchanged from father to son. Thus you
can only test limited kinds of hypotheses such as: does my
y-chromosome match that of Hans Georg Ritter, who lived in Berks Co.,
PA in the mid 1700's and left money to the Brethren church when he
died? It turns out I do match a documented descendant of Hans Georg,
but this still does not prove I am a descendant (I could have been
descended from a brother or cousin that had the same
y-chromosome). At least it lets me know which family of Ritters I
share a common patrilineal ancestor with and which I do not (I do not
with descendants of another ancestor named Elias Ritter who lived in
Somerset, PA, nor with descendants of the four Ritter brothers who
settled in Bucks Co., nor with Tex Ritter and other descendants of
Jesse Ritter of North Carolina).

Some people also use mitochondral DNA (mtDNA) to test if they share a
common maternal ancestor, since mtDNA is only passed from daughters
to their children. But this use is much more limited as mtDNA
changes more slowly and it is more difficult to trace strictly female
lines (with the surname changes every generation).

As for free DNA testing, the Sorenson data base will not give you
your results (it is strictly a research study, not a commercial
study, which is why it is free). Unless you have a very common last
name, you can probably find your results in their data base when they
post it eventually, but it will take a lot of trial and error work,
and may not be the easiest thing for a novice.

Phil (Ritter, Hamman and Bachman y-chromosome study co-administrator)

At 07:28 PM 11/1/2006, you wrote:
>RE: DNA Testing
>
>This is rhetorical, and I am not asking for a response or intending to get
>into a DNA debate. I'm sure DNA is very accurate at determining if one is
>not related to a particular family line. However, I have my doubts it
could
>accurately identify a distant ancestor. For example, I'm related to an
>Amish Miller family, but you have to go back eight generations to get to
it.
>That means I'm 1/256 Miller or about 0.4% Miller. My family also has a
>history of second cousins marrying second cousins. That could increase the
>amount of Miller DNA in my blood. But the person that I think is a many
>great grandfather could really be an uncle. Or the match could be coming
>from a source I have yet to recognize (like some distant generation
>connected in Europe).
>
>If I gathered a number of people with the Miller name and tested them, they
>also would be 1/256 Miller. How does one know for sure the matches are
even
>Miller matches, and not from some other common source? To expand on what
>I'm saying. I have a lot of Amish-Mennonite ancestry, and I literally have
>ties to about half the family names in "Amish and Amish Mennonite
>Genealogy". If I went to Lancaster, and grabbed an Amish man off the
street
>and did a DNA test with him, it most likely would show a relationship. But
>through who!
>
>
>Bill Thomas
>
>
>
>
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