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Archiver > BRETHREN > 2001-12 > 1008729085


From: mills <>
Subject: Re: [BRE] Groh or Moyer
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 21:31:25 -0500
References: <3.0.6.32.20011217170946.007b8990@reliable-net.net><3.0.6.32.20011218062743.007bb900@reliable-net.net>
In-Reply-To: <003801c187c7$36efa040$c3bab4cf@default>



Dwayne,

I just knew it would be a whole lot more complicated. To begin to test the
waters, I (probably followed your path and) went to Genforum and the Groh
surname list at Rootsweb. Not a single Matthias in either search.
So it may be primary records or nothing.

Sharon


At 08:23 AM 12/18/01 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Sharon,
>
>The Frantzes and the Meyers did not all live close together in one
>neighborhood. The Jacob Meyer family, that belonged to the Little Swatara
>Church, lived in Bethel Township, Lancaster (now Lebanon) County. This
>family closely neighbored the Michael Frantz family and the Nicholas Garst
>family. All three of these families belonged to the Little Swatara Church.
>
>The families of Rudolph Meyer and his son Henry lived in Tulpehocken
>Township in Berks County. These are the Meyers who were close neighbors of
>Christian II and Christian III Frantz. Christian Frantz II was a founding
>father of the Little Swatara Church, but I do not have any evidence that
>Rudolph and Henry Meyer were Brethren. They were just next-door neighbors.
>Across the Little Swatara Creek in Bethel Township, Berks County, lived John
>Frantz. And so did some of the Meyers who descended from Rudolph. John
>Frantz was also a founding father of the Little Swatara Church.
>
>The three Frantz brothers, Christian, Michael, and John, lived in three
>different townships, and in two different counties, yet their farms were
>very close together, i.e., no more than five miles apart. Political
>geography, not physical geography, seems to have separated them.
>
>There were lots of Meyers families living in the area according to Richard
>Warren Davis, who has chronicled the emigration of the Swiss Mennonites.
>Davis does not show any relation between the two Meyers families that you
>mention other than to demonstrate their Swiss Mennonite roots.
>
>Dwayne
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "mills" <>
>To: <>
>Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 6:27 AM
>Subject: Re: [BRE] Groh or Moyer
>
>
>>
>> Dawyne,
>>
>> Happy to take a small part in this discussion, as it hits on relevant
>names
>> for me.
>>
>> Who is the Meyer family living next to the Frantzes? If it is the family
>> of Jacob Meyer, his daughter Anna born prob late 1740's married John
>> Brubacher per his will. Another daughter of Jacob Meyer, Magdalena born
>> prob late 1740's, married John Groh. The marriages are per Jacob Meyer's
>> will.
>>
>> Sharon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> At 07:14 PM 12/17/01 -0500, you wrote:
>> >
>> >Hi Sharon,
>> >
>> >Thanks for studying my message about Anna Groh Frantz. The reason that I
>> >don't cite Matthias Groh's Will is because I have not seen it. I've only
>> >seen the abstract of his Will, which does not name children. Possibly,
>> >Richard Warren Davis has seen the Will, and that may be the source of his
>> >naming Anna Groh as Christian Frantz's wife.
>> >
>> >As for Anna Moyer, I can assure you that there is absolutely no evidence
>for
>> >her being the wife of Christian Frantz other than the fact that a
>> >Moyer/Meyer family lived next to them, and had real estate dealings with
>> >them. Her name got tossed out by the Matthias Frantz Clan in 1972 as
>> >possibly being the "Anna" who was married to Christian, but they never
>> >argued that there actually was an Anna Moyer in the neighborhood. All
>they
>> >did was seek a proximate (in the neighborhood) surname to go with a known
>> >given name of Anna.
>> >
>> >I still think that the preponderance of evidence has to go to Anna Groh,
>but
>> >I agree with you that we could settle matters by looking at the actual
>Will
>> >of Matthias Groh, or push Richard Warren Davis for his source.
>> >
>> >Dwayne
>> >
>> >
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: "mills" <>
>> >To: <>
>> >Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 5:09 PM
>> >Subject: [BRE] Groh or Moyer
>> >
>> >
>> >> Dwayne,
>> >>
>> >> You wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Matthias Gro/Groh died in 1771 and his Will was proven in July of that
>> >year.
>> >> It would seem that Matthias had advanced Christian and Anna Groh Frantz
>> >> money or property in the amount of 36 pounds, which was legally paid
>back
>> >in
>> >> the course of settling the estate. It was common practice for a father
>to
>> >> advance sums of money or pieces of property to his children (and their
>> >> spouses) upon or after their marriages, with the understanding that
>such
>> >> debts would not have to be repaid until settlement of the father's
>estate.
>> >>
>> >> Are you saying that the will of Matthias Gro/Groh specifically stated
>that
>> >> Christian Frantz and his wife Anna had borrowed money from him in the
>> >past,
>> >> with perhaps the stipulation that the borrowed amount be subtracted
>from
>> >> what they might have expected from his will?
>> >>
>> >> Ken Heeter very kindly sent me a copy of the will of Jacob Meyer,
>> >> referenced in several of your messages of a few weeks ago. In this
>> >> document Jacob named his children who might expect an inheritance. He
>> >> named the spouses of his daughters but not his sons. Then he listed
>the
>> >> amounts he had loaned them "in his life time", stipulating that these
>> >> monies were to be subtracted from their final share. In addition, he
>> >asked
>> >> that those who had received monies should hold back until those who
>hadn't
>> >> borrowed as much should receive their fair share.
>> >>
>> >> If this kind of language is in Mattias Groh's will, then I think you
>have
>> >a
>> >> case for "preponderance of evidence." Unless, of course, some one has
>> >> documents that support the Anna Moyer theory.
>> >>
>> >> Why not share the language of the will, which may not be as clear cut
>as
>> >> the Jacob Meyer will, in which Jacob identifes his children by name.
>> >>
>> >> Sharon Mills
>> >>
>> >>
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>> >
>> >
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>> >2
>> > A New Brethren Heritage Center
>> > in Ohio's Miami Valley will open later this fall.
>> >2 It's location will be in northern Montgomery County Ohio
>> > near Interstate 70, a few miles west of Interstate 75.
>> > for further information contact Jim Denlinger
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------------------
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> ==== BRETHREN Mailing List ====
>> 3 ----------------------------------------------
>> This is the Brethren Genealogy and History Network
>> we are sponsored by
>> The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists
>> You are invited to join the membership of FOBG
>> For further information e-mail
>>
>> ------------------------
>>
>
>
>==== BRETHREN Mailing List ====
>10 ----------------------------------------------
> A New Brethren Heritage Center
> in Ohio's Miami Valley will open later this fall.
> It's location will be in northern Montgomery County Ohio
> near Interstate 70, a few miles west of Interstate 75.
> for further information contact Jim Denlinger
>
> ------------------------
>
>
>


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