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Archiver > ARIZARD > 2003-05 > 1052156868


From: "Bernie Moore-Knowles" <>
Subject: Re: [ARIZARD-L]Matilda Wren/Creswell - Jean and all
Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 10:47:48 -0700
References: <003901c3132c$33674300$5574ad41@crstitch>


You know girls,

When that marriage popped up - the common Evans marriages? Sure made me
think that she was a Creswell with that alone.

But, I'm an easy sell! LOL

Interesting.

Have to run now for work, errands, etc...........back at you tonight?

Bernie Moore-Knowles
Phoenix, Arizona - Papa'aola, Hawai'i


"I have Indian blood in me. I have just enough White blood for you to
question my honesty." ........Will Rogers

----- Original Message -----
From: "jean" <>
To: <>
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 10:31 AM
Subject: Fw: [ARIZARD-L]RE: Hyman Wren & Harriett Trimble Family


> I have been going over my Creswell?Criswell data. This is only a
> guess and I am not sure its even an educated guess. But here goes.
>
> Assuming that James Wren/Criswell is indeed a Criswell.
> Harriet would have been born in 1823 and because the son is named James I
am
> taking liberty in saying the father was James also.
> James Cyrus Creswell b 1826 did not marry Martha Mann b 1839 until 1854,
> that would have made him 28 years old. He could have possibly been
married
> before Martha Mann. Something else brought me to this James Creswell is
> Hyman Wren using the name Cyrus, which is James Creswell's middle name.
The
> daughter of Harriet is named Matilda, which is a common name in the
Creswell
> family but it might be common in her family too. This is the only thing I
> can come up with that is close to these dates, barring that I am missing
> someone that I don't know about.{Now what are the chances of that
> happening}LOL
> jean popovich
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2003 1:09 PM
> Subject: [ARIZARD-L] Hyman Wren & Harriett Trimble Family
>
>
> > HI Bernie,
> > Here is the information I said I would send on the question of 1 or 2
> James
> > Wren. Maybe you will have some ideas.
> >
> > First of all - look at these census records:
> > 1850 - Rocky Bayou, Izard Co., Arkansas - pg. 13B
> > family 174/174
> > H. J. Wren - 29 - blacksmith - Ky
> > Harriett - 27 - Ark
> > James - 8 - Ark
> > Matilda - 7 - Ark
> > William J. - 4 - Ark
> > Shadrack M. - 1 - Ark
> >
> > family 175/175
> > James Wren - farmer - NC
> > Elizabeth - 56 - SC
> > Shadrack - 25 - Ky
> > Mary Ann - 21 - Ky
> > James - 9 - Ark
> > J. W. Hightower - 35 - farmer - Ky
> >
> > So - there are 2 James Wren listings. One with Hyman and Harriet at age
8
> > and one with James and Elizabeth at age 9.
> >
> > Then look at this census:
> > 1860 - Big Creek, Fulton Co., Arkansas - #273
> > Wren, Harriett - 38 - Ark - farmer
> > James Criswell - 18 - Ark - laborer
> > William - 15 - Ark
> > Shadrick - 12 - Ark
> > Cyrus - 10 - Ark
> > Francis - 4 - Ark
> > Conway, F. - 35 - male - Va - laborer
> > Now the James Wren, age 8, living with Hyman and Harriet appears to be
> James
> > Criswell, age 18, and her son by her first marriage. The James Wren,
age
> 9,
> > appears to have disappeared.
> >
> > Then in 1870 - Maramec, Crawford Co., Missouri - 84/84
> > Caswell, James - 30 - farmer - Ark
> > Martha - 24 - housekeeper - Ark
> > William - 3 - Mo
> > Wren, Fanis - 15 - attending school - Ark
> > Evans, Martha - 9 - attending school - Ark
> >
> > Then the question arose - was Matilda listed in the 1850 census also a
> > Creswell or a Wren. Based on all the above we could have the following
> > possibilities:
> >
> > Based on census records and if we say that there are two different
James -
> a
> > James Creswell and a James Wren then we would have the the following
> > children:
> >
> > James Creswell - age 9 in 1850 - listed as Wren and living with James
and
> > Elizabeth Wren
> > James Wren - age 8 in the 1850 census living with Hyman & Harriet
> > Matilda - age 7 in the 1850 census living with Hyman & Harriet
> > William J. - age 4 in the 1850 census living with Hyman & Harriet
> > Shadrack M. - age 1 in the 1850 census living with Hyman and Harriet
> >
> > In this line up Matilda would probably be a Wren.
> >
> > If you reverse that line up and list them this way then you have:
> > James Wren - age 9 in 1850 - and living with James and Elizabeth Wren
> > James Creswell - age 8 in the 1850 census and listed as James Wren
living
> > with Hyman & Harriet
> > Matilda - age 7 in the 1850 census living with Hyman & Harriet
> > William J. - age 4 in the 1850 census living with Hyman & Harriet
> > Shadrack M. - age 1 in the 1850 census living with Hyman and Harriet
> >
> > Then Matilda and James could both be Creswell but... that makes James
Wren
> > older than they are. So... where would he fit? A possible earlier
> marriage
> > for Hyman?????
> >
> > And the third way of looking at these census records is with a single
> James -
> >
> > only James Creswell, but listed twice in the census records.
> > James Creswell - age 9 in 1850 - listed as Wren and living with James
and
> > Elizabeth Wren
> > James Wren (really James Creswell) - age 8 in the 1850 census listed as
> Wren
> > and living with Hyman &
> > Harriet
> > Matilda - age 7 in the 1850 census living with Hyman & Harriet
> > William J. - age 4 in the 1850 census living with Hyman & Harriet
> > Shadrack M. - age 1 in the 1850 census living with Hyman and Harriet
> >
> > Then Matilda could also be a Creswell based on the lineup of ages and
the
> > space between Matilda and William J.
> >
> > Or... two James.
> > If you reverse that line up and list them this way then you have:
> > James Wren - age 9 in 1850 - and living with James and Elizabeth Wren
> > James Creswell - age 8 in the 1850 census and listed as James Wren
living
> > with Hyman & Harriet
> > Matilda - age 7 in the 1850 census living with Hyman & Harriet
> > William J. - age 4 in the 1850 census living with Hyman & Harriet
> > Shadrack M. - age 1 in the 1850 census living with Hyman and Harriet
> >
> > In this one the children listed with Harriet and Hyman belong to them in
> some
> > manner with James Wren, age 8 really being James Creswell. Which leaves
> > James Wren, age 9, living with James Wren and Elizabeth Hightower. In
> 1850
> > Elizabeth is listed as age 56. Which puts her a bit old to have a 9
year
> old
> > child but certainly not impossible. Or... could this James Wren, age 8,
> be
> > their grandchild and belong to another one of their children? And when
> you
> > look at those options there aren't many possibilities among their
> children.
> >
> > Anyway... that is sort of where we are at this point in time - got any
> > ideas.... <g>.
> > Take care - Emma
> >
> > ______________________________
>
>
>
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