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From: Jeanette Daniels <>
Subject: Re: [APG] Norway
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 15:17:25 -0700 (PDT)
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In-Reply-To: <C533A6940C50437BB65A34D3918AD15F@kontorlmh>


Liv,

Thank you.  I think that those living in America are having a difficult time understanding your reasoning for the in-and-out records found in 19th century Norwegian and Danish parish registers.  The Swedish registers have that same information but it is located in the "clerical surveys" made by the ministers starting in the early 18th century.  The ministers were responsible for keeping track of all who lived in their parishes.  This became more difficult as freedom of religion was allowed around 1850.  This freedom allowed Scandinavians to choose their own religious denominations.  That made record keeping more difficult to control and the civil government eventually took over. 

In North America, there has never been a state church so the concept of why records that have nothing to do with religion being kept in the church records is difficult to understand.  Good luck with your Norwegian genealogy book.

Jeanette




________________________________
From: Liv Marit Haakenstad <>
To: Liv Marit Haakenstad <>; ;
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 3:37:06 PM
Subject: Re: [APG] Norway

Hello,
I am writing a book about Norwegian genealogy.
Here is a translation of the chapter about inn- og utflyttede:

The vicar had to record "tilgangs- og avgangslister" from 1812. This part is
missing in several church records. From 1818 the vicars had to control
servants without a job and beggars who moved in and out of the parish. From
1820 they should also record why they wanted to move. In 1845 it came a law
about poor people, and this law stated that they had to get a paper from the
vicar (prestattest) to move from one parish to another. This law was
expanded in 1863. A law in 1860 annulled the law about recording people (the
law from 1805). From 1900 the police made this certificates, but some vicars
did so to around 1910. (Lian 2008, Stoa og Sandberg 2001:57, Mykland
2005:101)

I am sorry for my English, but hope this was clearer.


Liv Marit Haakenstad

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Liv Marit Haakenstad
Sendt: 15. april 2009 23:21
Til: ;
Emne: Re: [APG] Norway

Hello again,
Everybody should be reported, but a lot of them moved without a certificate.
But the background for recording them was tramps. The communities had to pay
for the poor ones, and by recording them, they knew who should pay the bill.



Liv Marit Haakenstad

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Sendt: 15. april 2009 23:13
Til:
Emne: Re: [APG] Norway

I'm not a Norwegian expert (so no one should this to the bank), but I have
done a fair amount of research in Norwegian parish records.  I don't think
the stated reasons for the inflytting (moving in) and utflytting (moving
out) records hold water.  Both Swedish and Norwegian church records
routinely recorded people (not just tramps and gypsies) leaving and arriving
in parishes.  As for name changes, I have found many cases of Norwegian
names shifting for odd reasons.  Perhaps others on the list can tell us more
about the history of the inflytting and utflytting records.

Jay Fonkert, CG
St. Paul, MN

-----Original Message-----
From: Liv Marit Haakenstad <>
To: 'LBoswell' <>;
Sent: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 4:00 pm
Subject: Re: [APG] Norway



Hi,
I will try to explain it. In Norway it was illegal to be a tramp, and later
n they also wanted to control the gypsies (from the end of 1900). Wherefore
hey started controlling everybody. It was also a difference between the oor
people. The persons who wanted to be homeless and lazy, and the ones ho
didn't. They tried to control this laws by watching people when they oved.
So they got a paper from the vicar when moving to another place.
hose who got this paper was also listed in the church record under moving n
and out of the parish (1805 to ca. 1860).
The Emigrant Protocols was started in 1869, after a several reports to the
onsul in New York about swindle, specially in Liverpool. After 1
869 all
orwegians had a ticket all the way from their home in Norway to their
estination in US. And this was registrated in the Emigration Protocols.

est regards,
iv Marit Haakenstad
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Boswell
endt: 15. april 2009 22:16
il:
mne: [APG] Norway
List is quiet today, so thought it a good time to see if anyone can answer a
ouple of questions regarding Norwegian records.  I've been increasingly sing
Norwegian databases because some of my areas of interest have high
candinavian immigrant immigrants. For years I've used Norwegian esearchers,
but a lot of the knowledge needed has rubbed off on me, and I'm amiliar
enough to do most of the Norwegian work myself.
Police reports on emigrants are an incredible resource, more than a few imes
they've tied down a connection.  Why did Norwegian emigrants need to eport
their departure in this manner? Always helps to know why a record was ade.
2nd question:  More often now I'm seeing baptisms with what would be
onsidered given and middlenames, that later are used in reverse (I'm not
alking about patronymic surnames, farm names, or the like).  One of my
orwegian sources explains that middlenames aren't used in the usual ashion,
each of the names has the full status that we (England, North
merica) would assign to the given name.  I know there is a Norwegian law
oncerning names (1923) but the period I'm referencing above starts 1870s nd
forward (about the t ime patronymic names are being phased out).
Anyone?
Larry




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