ABERDEEN-L ArchivesArchiver > ABERDEEN > 2008-01 > 1200877316
Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] LDS familysearch.org ~ terminalogy
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 02:01:56 +0100
Dear Gavin, as a resident of the Netherlands I've found that the Dutch in no way object to being called Dutch.. it is the correct english translation of the Dutch word Nederlander, or inhabitant of the Netherlands. What they do object to is the use of "Holland" instead of "the Netherlands." The Netherlands comprises of 12 provinces, similar to Scottish counties. Two of the twelve are North Holland and South Holland. Calling the Netherlands "Holland" is the same as calling Scotland Morayshire or Aberdeenshire. North and South Holland comprise together just a sixth of the whole country.
Van: namens Gavin Bell
Verzonden: zo 20-1-2008 23:09
Onderwerp: Re: [ABERDEEN] LDS familysearch.org ~ terminalogy
>To those residents of: Scotland, England, Wales, Northern Ireland, Isle of
>Man, Channel Islands, Lundy .. etc etc ...
>Unfortunately in the USA (and with some of us in Canada, who ought to know
>better!) everything your way is referred to as the "UK" or "British". This
>is why the words "British Census" will be found within the LDS' Family
>Search web site, although the web site does not include the Scottish census.
That is at least preferable to referring to the country as "England" and
calling us all "English" - which I am afraid some inhabitants of North
America have been known to do ...
>It's sort of like people (see countries listed above) on your side of the
>Atlantic calling the USA "America" or referring to those who live in the USA
>as "Americans". There are 3 Americas in the Western Hemisphere; North,
>Central and South America. There are 3 countries in North America; Canada,
>USA and Mexico. Central America also has 7 separate countries, with South
>America having 13(?) separate countries. That's at least 23 countries in
>the Americas and makes all of us "American". Canada is the largest country
>in the Americas and second largest in the world.
>Those who reside in the USA are actually "USians", much the same as those of
>us in Canada are "Canadians" and those in Mexico are "Mexicans". Just as
>some in Scotland, Wales and/or England etc become upset when they are
>'lumped together' as being "British" .. so do some of us on this side become
>upset when the words "American" and "America" are mis-used. I'm one of them
>who certainly does!
Fair enough. But I think you have your work cut out to get the term
"USian" widely accepted. Most Scots will correctly refer to those of
you who live north of the 49th Parallel as "Canadian" and also (where
appropriate) as "North American". But the term "American" has a long
history meaning "inhabitant of the USA", and I suspect that your attempt
to change this is doomed by linguistic inertia..
To take a parallel case: inhabitants of the Kingdom of the Netherlands
seem, by and large, to be able to live with us foreigners calling them
"Dutch" - and in fact I find that many Netherlanders voluntarily use the
term "Dutch" themselves, when speaking English, probably because the
technically more correct "Netherlandish" sounds a bit cumbersome.
Bear in mind also that usages change. In the 19th century the term
"America" was commonly used in Scotland to refer (without distinction)
to both the United States and to British North America The latter
officially changed its name to "Canada" in 1867, but the older usage
probably continued for some time thereafter. That may not be strictly
correct, but when interpreting historical sources, it is important to be
>Oh .. and by the way, Canada has not been a "Colony" since 1867! So some of
>us aren't too happy to hear ourselves referred to as "Colonists" or from the
>"Colonies"! We are officially - "The Dominion of Canada".
Can you quote an occasion when the term "colony" has been used on this
list to refer to Canada (or to any other territory) other than in a
historical context, or ironically? I have searched the List Archive,
and since 2000 there appear to have been just 36 times the term has been
used, none of them referring to present-day Canada. Perhaps you have
come across this usage from ignorant or thoughtless people in other
contexts, but I cannot find that the Aberdeen List has so slandered you.
>[Also FYI, we don't use the words "Red Indians" either .. it's "The First
>People", "The First Nations", "Native", "Aboriginal" or even "Indian" in
>some cases, but never "Red Indian".]
The same applies. I'm sure we don't mind standing up for the sins we
have committed, but it gets up my nose rather to be lectured about
something I don't think any of us has been guilty of.
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